Is Tzeentch even evil?

[Goose]

All his factions do is mess with timelines & change things. the twisted twin was abused & bullied so tzeentch let him take power over his entire village that abused him

[Mursosishi]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Father Ribs:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Frigg:

but remember All chaos Gods want one thing;
for all sentient emotion creating life to go extinct.
chaos creatures and the chaos Gods are created be the emotions, thoughts and energies of sentient creatures; as such the strongest of those in the warhammer fantasy world are "rage, change, pleasure/pain, entropy.
khorn, tzeenth, slaanesh, nurgle.

Some of your reasoning I can agree with (even our terrestrial gods are quite variable, selfish, vindictive, draconian), and reflect facets of our own humanity. Greek and Norse mythology are full of gods who are not "good" or "evil", but have specific agendas and even the bad ones you can catch on a good day and finagle a deal.

This though...are you arguing that the Chaos gods want to destroy all sentient life to prevent more rivals being born? Without sentient life, you don't have the emotions that they feed on. Khorne doesn't care about bears eating salmon; he wants sentient beings to feed his rage; I don't see the skulls as the end-result, but trophies to all the blood spilled in his name.

Likewise, it's hard to be extremely sensual as a tree (AFAIK); you need someone to fall into pits of depravity to get the really juicy stuff, and while will isn't needed, the ability to understand and "appreciate" (be it pleasure or pain) what is going on.

Likewise, Tzeench isn't going to expect Machiavellian coral reefs to hatch byzantine plots to screw each other over; plots require thought, and agency. It requires pride (all the gods use pride to be honest)...all things that require sentience, or it's just laws of nature, and Tzeench is about screwing with the natural order, not following it.

And my big boy Nurgle...the death and pain aren't the end goal. If pain was the end goal, how come everyone who goes green essentially is delivered from pain (except when they look in the mirror). Every point of the life cycle is equally important, from the rot of death to the burst of new life. Thinking about it now, I guess nurgle doesn't "need" sentient beings for his work...but he likes people to appreciate his work and the beauty of it. Otherwise, he would just be a god of microbes and everyone would be puddles of ooze.

Yeah, Nurgle as likely the oldest major chaos god and the one least dependent on sentients merely to survive seems to have developed a legitimate interest and care in sentient life. While Nurgle doesn't understand mortal life, giving them "gifts" that in most cases they have no interest in, at the same time he seems to be the only one to be legitimately trying to "help" in his own very twisted ways.

A Nurgle victory is one that ends in something other than complete galactic genocide, probably something like the "Cancerverse" so granted not a LOT better but at least sentient life goes on in SOME form. XD

[Father Ribs]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alar:

This is all well and good but in practical terms nothing else aside of misery and suffering ever comes out of their influence. Ever. So the whole 'somewhat less than pure evil' traits never amount to anything.

Like all things, the "higher up in the organization you are" affects how much the direction of misery and suffering goes...just like real life. ;)

[FizzyElf]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Interstellar Samaritan:

All his factions do is mess with timelines & change things. the twisted twin was abused & bullied so tzeentch let him take power over his entire village that abused him

None of the chaos gods are evil, they are simply perceived to be. At the same time, all of them are monkey paw enthusiasts and petty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Sawboss]

Tzeentch is inspired by Yog-Sothoth yeah? I've always thought of it as being indifferent, not actually malicious.

[MrSoul]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sawboss:

Tzeentch is inspired by Yog-Sothoth yeah? I've always thought of it as being indifferent, not actually malicious.

Similar in concept but he is far from indifferent, and most certainly is malicious to any who stand to oppose him, be they other chaos gods, or the efforts of mortals to thwart his schemes; what little of them anyone can comprehend without going completely insane at least.

[jonoliveira12]

To the victim, there is no difference between malicious harm and indifferent harm.

[Basarab Laiota]

why'd you change the title+description of the OP?

[MrSoul]

I mean, what am I saying, totally good guy. He just likes playing harmless pranks, btw can I offer anyone any power to achieve their deepest desires in life?

Just sign on the dotted line and we can get your order ready here before end of day, what? Oh don’t mind that part about collateral and your soul, just old legalese. Said you’re a high ranking official in your government right? Perfect. Here you are.

*tucks multi coloured feathered tail behind his robes*

[Prisoner 76561197992841073]

From a human perspective, Tzeentch's actions and the actions of his followers might be considered evil due to the suffering and chaos they cause. However, within the context of the Warhammer universe, morality is often blurred and subjective. The Chaos Gods are driven by their own inscrutable motivations and operate according to their own twisted logic.

It's worth noting that the motivations of Chaos Gods are often incomprehensible to mortals. Tzeentch's actions may seem paradoxical or contradictory, as he revels in both change and the preservation of his own power. The example you provided, where Tzeentch allowed the bullied individual to take power, can be seen as an example of Tzeentch's penchant for manipulation and the perpetuation of strife.

Ultimately, the question of whether Tzeentch is "evil" is subjective and open to interpretation within the context of the Warhammer universe. Different individuals and factions within that universe may have varying perspectives on the nature of Tzeentch and the Chaos Gods as a whole.

[Leslian Lexter]

Dont listen to all these heretics. Yes Tzeentch is evil. Just actually read the story of Villitch the Curseling, if youre in doubt.

[Velber]

tzeentch is technically evil, but values change over everything, he himself just goes about it with scheming
it was actually due to his ties to the concept of change that made him originally too powerful so the other chaos gods had to weaken him like they did to slannesh

[MrSoul]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Prigozhin:

From a human perspective, Tzeentch's actions and the actions of his followers might be considered evil due to the suffering and chaos they cause. However, within the context of the Warhammer universe, morality is often blurred and subjective. The Chaos Gods are driven by their own inscrutable motivations and operate according to their own twisted logic.

It's worth noting that the motivations of Chaos Gods are often incomprehensible to mortals. Tzeentch's actions may seem paradoxical or contradictory, as he revels in both change and the preservation of his own power. The example you provided, where Tzeentch allowed the bullied individual to take power, can be seen as an example of Tzeentch's penchant for manipulation and the perpetuation of strife.

Ultimately, the question of whether Tzeentch is "evil" is subjective and open to interpretation within the context of the Warhammer universe. Different individuals and factions within that universe may have varying perspectives on the nature of Tzeentch and the Chaos Gods as a whole.

lol I feel like this chat gpt spiel is what Tzeentch would say if asked. Followed by a wink and “just trust me”

[fmalfeas]

Tzeentch is a dangerous, DANGEROUS thing.

To start with, he's a paradox right out the gate. He's both Change and Fate. FATE. A chaos god of immutable law.

He's also Hope. Sounds nice, right?

Well, stop and think about what hope requires to even exist. There must be a stronger threat. Which means Tzeentch sides with the underdog, and as soon as they don't need hope anymore, unless they do things to keep his attention, he'll abandon them. He also doesn't care WHO needs the hope. A horrible murderer trying to survive retribution is as eligible for hope as an oppressed people fighting for freedom.

[Arthur two sheds Jackson]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alar:

He absolutely is evil. None of the chaos gods have any redeemable qualities, even though its fun sometimes to pretend they do. Its all about sadistic destruction (occasionally creation but with only one goal of more destruction later) and literally nothing else.

khorne have some redeemable qualities like courage while facing impossible odd

[dollars202]

Someone working to end the world so it can destroyed can only be viewed as evil. Anything else is petty justification for liking evil. Sure the ♥♥♥♥'s were formidable fighters in ww2 but no one would want their ethnic cleansing programs that followed in their wake. Chaos is much like nazis who only goal is complete world domination so they can make it in their own image. (which for Chaos is complete destruction)