Ask me lore questions

[Reverend Belial]

Some few veterans may recall my thread in the very first game's forum, which was sadly recently closed after seven years of operation RIP May 17th 2017 - June 37 2023, it is time to re-open in this newer, more bustling locale.

This is exactly what it says on the tin. Any lore question you may have about Warhammer Fantasy - big or small, obvious or obscure - ask away and I will do my best to answer it (even the not-so-serious ones). Anybody is welcome here, veterans and newcomers alike, so long as they come in good faith.

FAQ:
Q: Is 40k and Fantasy the same universe?
A: No.

Q: What is the End Times and why did it happen?
A: The End Times is the destruction of the Warhammer Fantasy setting, both in and out of universe. Chaos won the final confrontation and destroyed the world, beginning a new cycle and franchise. Out-of-universe this was done because Fantasy's models were costing Games Workshop more money than they were making them so they decided to scrap the setting entirely and reboot it as an 80's power metal album cover.

Disclaimers/Guidelines (I know that we're not supposed to back-seat moderate but sometimes it's necessary to keep things organized):
1. The most important thing; I AM NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. Do not take what I say as the gospel truth, I can forget and I can misread things just like everybody else. My knowledge of the Elves is also pretty shady. There are several regulars around who tend to fill in blanks or correct me if I'm wrong though, so you'll probably get your answer regardless.

2. Repeat questions are ok, so long as the question hasn't been asked on the same page or the one before it. I don't expect anybody to sift through 3000+ posts, but a light skim of the previous page won't kill anybody.

3. GW is extremely vague on many things, so sometimes there just simply isn't an answer to your question. They're also prone to retcons so sometimes what you think is the answer is no longer valid.

4. Try to avoid arguments. I know that sometimes they're unavoidable, but please don't deliberately antagonize anybody. Pretty basic.

5. No continuing the "Skaven don't exist" meme outside the context of the lore. I know it's fun sometimes, but it's old, tired, and just wants to rest. Plus it grates on other people.

[FizzyElf]

Originally posted by Jakal thinkin' bout Hydro:

Originally posted by FizzyElf:

Not really, it's a xeno organism which appears to be spanning deep into the planet which is now granting the Ogres miracles due to their patronage. Nothing I said was a stretch besides the emperor bit where I made sure to note that it was a "lower scale version" of his setup: god in the mortal realm perpetually fueled by it's followers which are similar enough cases to draw such a parallel, they are not the same and not the same scale in any possible way, they are similar. I'm not exactly reinventing the way one should look at 40k and fantasy, I'm just saying there is a similarity which can be used as a paralleling example of this system existing in GW's products for the benefit of the reader so they have more meat to chew on with their answer and potentially things to explore further on the wiki or in the books.

And if you are saying it's a stretch to believe it is NOT an organism part of or the heart of a hive mind or that it is a stretch to compare it to the tyranid late game organisms then please enlighten me as to where in fantasy it is stated that the Maw is controlling the Ogres and using them as a fantasy version of rippers and where in 40k it says that the tyranids do not burrow into the crust and drain the planet of it's biosphere and resources with massive organisms (the same organisms I am literally using to compare it's appearance and scale to as we actually have artwork and lore about their size and scale). I will be happy to retract either or both of those statements I made in my original post and would love to discuss either plot line in GW's works. for the record, neither exists, so don't bother looking if you don't want to as I already did just to make sure I wasn't coming up with my own lore in the original post (before writing my response here) as you know, I'm no expert and could easily get something wrong..

I understand that you dislike me or 40k or both, I won't fight you on it, nor do I care if you hate me for writing this but come on mate, really? a stretch to make comparisons between works of fiction created by the same company? Not only that but comparisons that others in the community have made to boot rather than something unique and magical that I just cooked up myself. Fantasy, AOS and 40k are separate universe but that does not mean using parallels and finding similarities is illegal just because of that separation.

some ogres worship a volcano. the volcano gives them fire magic. it's just as plausible the maw isn't granting miracles, it's just cursing the fat bastards with hunger and they happen to have the same innate magical potential humans do. something supported by the fact two or three of the ogre spells are old 1st edition battle magic spells...

You mean the idea that the Maw is a fictional deity that the orges made up after seeing a bunch of sharp looking rocks in a circle and thought it was a massive beast? I thought that got retconned and replaced with the cathay narrative.

Edit: not arguing that wasn't a thing, because it definitely was but I am not sure it still is currently in the lore.

[DerRitter]

Originally posted by FizzyElf:

Originally posted by DerRitter:

Fantasy and 40k are completely separate setting and have nothing to do with one another

0_o really? it's almost as if

Originally posted by Reverend Belial:

FAQ:
Q: Is 40k and Fantasy the same universe?
A: No.

we already should know that before ever making a post on this forum page. Or at least I hope everyone made it that far into Reverend's handy FAQ as it is full of quick and very useful info. Maybe today is a good day to be pass aggressive and salty about everything to lighten the mood around here cause man is this a tough crowd tonight.

Well, seeing as you have read this, WHY do you posit that the Maw has ANYTHING to do with Tyranids?
Tyranids are not a thing in Fantasy.

[DerRitter]

Originally posted by FizzyElf:

Originally posted by Jakal thinkin' bout Hydro:

some ogres worship a volcano. the volcano gives them fire magic. it's just as plausible the maw isn't granting miracles, it's just cursing the fat bastards with hunger and they happen to have the same innate magical potential humans do. something supported by the fact two or three of the ogre spells are old 1st edition battle magic spells...

You mean the idea that the Maw is a fictional deity that the orges made up after seeing a bunch of sharp looking rocks in a circle and thought it was a massive beast? I thought that got retconned and replaced with the cathay narrative.

Edit: not arguing that wasn't a thing, because it definitely was but I am not sure it still is currently in the lore.

They need to make up their minds about this lore.

[Reverend Belial]

Originally posted by FizzyElf:

You mean the idea that the Maw is a fictional deity that the orges made up after seeing a bunch of sharp looking rocks in a circle and thought it was a massive beast? I thought that got retconned and replaced with the cathay narrative.

Edit: not arguing that wasn't a thing, because it definitely was but I am not sure it still is currently in the lore.

Technically the stone circle thing coexisted with the Cathay narrative, the idea being that they misinterpreted the impact crater.

It's definitely not correct though, the Maw is a being of flesh and hunger.

[FizzyElf]

Originally posted by DerRitter:

Originally posted by FizzyElf:

0_o really? it's almost as if

we already should know that before ever making a post on this forum page. Or at least I hope everyone made it that far into Reverend's handy FAQ as it is full of quick and very useful info. Maybe today is a good day to be pass aggressive and salty about everything to lighten the mood around here cause man is this a tough crowd tonight.

Well, seeing as you have read this, WHY do you posit that the Maw has ANYTHING to do with Tyranids?
Tyranids are not a thing in Fantasy.

Because I am drawing a parallel, it is not something that needs to be in the same universe, as a matter of fact I could also compare it to stuff outside of GW's products by using things like the sarlacc from star wars or dune's sandworms under ideal circumstances where they come vertically up and eat whatever is able to fall into their gaping maw. I wanted to keep everything in house though. There is a difference between drawing similarities or parallel and just saying the great maw from warhammer fantasy is actually canonically the cookie monster from sesame street.

[Ashardalon]

except being hungry, there isnt really any similarity between the maw and nids
nothing of what it does is niddy

[FizzyElf]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

except being hungry, there isnt really any similarity between the maw and nids
nothing of what it does is niddy

You might want to read a bit earlier, it wasn't covered in the last couple of posts. To sum it up it is a giant organism similar to those the nids create to burrow into planets in terms of scale (and of course it is ravenous and can look like a tyranid from a certain point of view, plus it gives off nid vibes which everyone and their grandmother catches when learning about the maw which is why so many people think it is or could be a fantasy nid even though it isn't). It is an absolutely massive alien bioform and if it is canon that the maelstrom is the other end of the creature then that means it's larger than anything the nids have produced as they don't go after the mantel or core nor do they have single organisms wrap around entire planets needlessly. GW has only ever nearly confirmed that though to my knowledge and supposedly Count Noct threw some zombies into the maelstrom and they popped out in the mountains to the surprise of the Ogres so at the very least the energy of the two has created a bridge of some sort which connects the two locations. I know a few people want to be able to use this as a way to fast travel between the two locations but I doubt CA will do it.
I first heard about that bit of lore here if you want a starting off point: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/qzc1uc/is_the_maelstrom_the_great_maws_other_end/
Wasn't that hard to find it though, simply typing into google about the maelstrom and the maw will bring up the thread so you'd have likely found it even without the link.

[Jakal, Lady kisser]

that's a myth. the malestrom doesn't eat anything, the ogres just saw it when they were hired to be porters for heavy cargo and concluded that's what it must be. the "zombies popped out the other end" thing was never actually cannon, it was one of white dwarf's "what if scenarios" to justify using the not-canon vampire coasts army against the ogres who very much do not send armies to lustria.

[FizzyElf]

Originally posted by Jakal thinkin' bout Hydro:

that's a myth. the malestrom doesn't eat anything, the ogres just saw it when they were hired to be porters for heavy cargo and concluded that's what it must be. the "zombies popped out the other end" thing was never actually cannon, it was one of white dwarf's "what if scenarios" to justify using the not-canon vampire coasts army against the ogres who very much do not send armies to lustria.

I think now it's thought to be related due to the cathay incident with part of the meteor making the maelstrom so it's assumed that deep down beneath the waves there is something draining the ocean of it's fish population.

[FizzyElf]

I'll see if I can find the quote for that real quick.

[Ashardalon]

-nids dont create organisms that big to burrow
they have burrowing organisms, but you wont really find anything bigger then a mawlock
-the only nid vibe is hungry, not everything hungry is nids
can argue its just a very fat kroot by that logic
-isnt it more likely that the maelstrom is just the metaphysical backend
just a warpstone meteor taking the shape of the concept
because a creature sticking out both ends of a planet, including the core
how would it even poo up gravity

[Jakal, Lady kisser]

also the maelstrom isn't on the other end of the planet, it's at like a 60-degree angle from it. there's a whole-ass other ocean people keep forgetting about to check the distance on that.

[FizzyElf]

Found this: https://imgur.com/a/E6WDMLM but I can't seem to find it in the army book I use (PDF version: https://downloads.ctfassets.net/d8f8o92s2xk2/75RPJoFi3enotpdlxWj89P/de17a4f3ab35fb361ec688bb10d46fe8/Warhammer_-_Ogre_Kingdoms_9th_Ed_v.1.4.pdf)
It's probably mislabeled and I am looking in the wrong location. The other thing I found isn't quite related and is just the wiki saying the maelstrom side draws in death and the cathay side draws in life. I'll keep looking for a bit but the screencap does have the quote I am looking for.

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

-nids dont create organisms that big to burrow
they have burrowing organisms, but you wont really find anything bigger then a mawlock
-the only nid vibe is hungry, not everything hungry is nids
can argue its just a very fat kroot by that logic
-isnt it more likely that the maelstrom is just the metaphysical backend
just a warpstone meteor taking the shape of the concept
because a creature sticking out both ends of a planet, including the core
how would it even poo up gravity

They create some larger organisms during the cleanup phase but there is nothing to my knowledge anywhere near this big in the combat form line and if it is something that is passing through the crust or curving around the planet and coming out the other end then it is WAY bigger than anything the nids have as the warhammer fantasy world is larger than earth and no matter how you slice it, if that tid bit is true then the Maw is bigger than any nid form we have seen (navy included) by a very wide margin.

[FizzyElf]

Originally posted by Jakal thinkin' bout Hydro:

also the maelstrom isn't on the other end of the planet, it's at like a 60-degree angle from it. there's a whole-ass other ocean people keep forgetting about to check the distance on that.

The boiling sea is churned by the butt of the creature

[Neas]

where the fimir a threat for humans at the time of sigmar or where they already more fiction then fact?