How to Tzeentch?

[Nazukao]

Can you give me some tips on how to play Tzeentch on Immortal empires? All tips are appreciated.

[Enelith]

First, do you know how to play his faction ? If not, play RoC to familiarize yourself with it.

Second, Tzeentch's campaign in IE is definitely not a rookie/noob one. You'll have Teclis and Oxyotl coming for you very early.

Edit :
Also, persevere.
Remember those wise words ! "Improvise, adapt, overcome" (pretty fitting for this faction)

[Nazukao]

Originally posted by Enelith:

First, do you know how to play his faction ? If not, play RoC to familiarize yourself with it.

Second, Tzeentch's campaign in IE is definitely not a rookie/noob one. You'll have Teclis and Oxyotl coming for you very early.

Yes, I played with Kairos for some hours. I was just thinking about knowing what might be the best ways to run a campaign with Kairos. I can't get good results, I realize I have some problems with battles too. I'd like to know a little about the experiences of others

[Cyiel]

Originally posted by Nazukao:

Originally posted by Enelith:

First, do you know how to play his faction ? If not, play RoC to familiarize yourself with it.

Second, Tzeentch's campaign in IE is definitely not a rookie/noob one. You'll have Teclis and Oxyotl coming for you very early.

Yes, I played with Kairos for some hours. I was just thinking about knowing what might be the best ways to run a campaign with Kairos. I can't get good results, I realize I have some problems with battles too. I'd like to know a little about the experiences of others

Do you have the Champions of Chaos DLC ? Kairos without access to some melee units can be harsh sometimes.

[DaBa]

I have only played Tzeentch once and for a limited time, but from my experience you only struggle until you get your lords and heroes leveled up, get insane winds of magic and then melt every army with magic, then finish the stragglers with your army.

And you have some pretty strong units too. Flamers are very nasty and can melt just about everything you point them at, just make sure to protect them. Chosen of Tzeentch (if you're playing WOC) are actually some of the best chosen out there in terms of how well they can hold the line. And Pink Horrors are pretty cheap and decent at dealing damage at range once they get some ranks and buffs from lords going. But Tzeentch is definitely not a faction that you want to go head to head with your enemies purely with an army. You either want overwhelming odds, forced ambush, or spellcasters that can melt armies.

[Triple G]

Exalted pink horrors are good. I guess that´s about it. :o) They are decent enough in melee - even more so if You invest a bit into the red line. But that´s rather expensive early game, as You lack replenishment. I did many blue horrors - and merged them after fights to get new ones. These are basically Your frontline infantry. Add some pink horrors as ranged units - and the starting ones. The heroes aren´t that bad, as they can fly and shoot 360. Don´t use the chariot, but the faster mount - if they get focused they melt within seconds, and with the faster mount You at least have the chance to pull them out in time. Give them missile resistance.

The Tzeentchian spells are good - i´d focus to get that one fast which basically deletes any unit You cast it on. Don´t know the name actually. That one with the eye - the static vortex thingy. Use it on blobs or any ranged unit, which has a longer range - or melee units which would make problems. Go for high model count units with it. Perhaps also have some metal caster, because You don´t have much armor piercing.

Late game Tzeentch is rather strong, when You add some lords of change, and soulgrinders, and summons - and cast the spells, add some cavalry, etc. Early game - it´s rather weak, or harsh as said above. Also i wasn´t really convinced by any other flying units - or those flamers. But You can try them if You want. The warriors look very good - but i guess they don´t have a shield variant either. They´re better and cheaper than exalted pink horrors in melee, while i´m unsure if they would beat them in 1 vs 1, because the pink horrors can shoot at them when they advance. Of course the chosen would be superior.

[Nazukao]

thanks guys. another question. how do you suggest to deal with enemy factions? Like Teclis, Oxyotl and Tiktaq'to?

[Molybdane]

Originally posted by Nazukao:

thanks guys. another question. how do you suggest to deal with enemy factions? Like Teclis, Oxyotl and Tiktaq'to?

The tips above should suffice, but to add to that my own experience, you need mortal infantry of any kind. Marauders are okay, Chaos warriors are better. Try to phase out blue horrors, as they are too unwieldy to use. Then use blocks of mortal infantry alternated with pink horrors. Treat pink horrors as handgunners.

Besides that, the pinkfire spell is your friend, particularly if you cast it on a unit that is just about in range of pink horrors, as the warpfire effect will then take full effect.

There's a couple of nice taches in there too, I forgot them, except this one, there's a tech that it seems to provice mana for pink horrors that are shooting. More mana = more spells = win, obviously.

[Basarab Laiota]

trade a settlement to the slaneshi faction to the east early on to get them as a military ally, they're pretty helpful.

[Nazukao]

Originally posted by Molybdane:

Originally posted by Nazukao:

thanks guys. another question. how do you suggest to deal with enemy factions? Like Teclis, Oxyotl and Tiktaq'to?

The tips above should suffice, but to add to that my own experience, you need mortal infantry of any kind. Marauders are okay, Chaos warriors are better. Try to phase out blue horrors, as they are too unwieldy to use. Then use blocks of mortal infantry alternated with pink horrors. Treat pink horrors as handgunners.

Besides that, the pinkfire spell is your friend, particularly if you cast it on a unit that is just about in range of pink horrors, as the warpfire effect will then take full effect.

There's a couple of nice taches in there too, I forgot them, except this one, there's a tech that it seems to provice mana for pink horrors that are shooting. More mana = more spells = win, obviously.

Sorry, I actually asked the question in a generic way. I meant from a tactical point of view. Who do you think should be eliminated first etc

[Molybdane]

Originally posted by Nazukao:

Originally posted by Molybdane:

The tips above should suffice, but to add to that my own experience, you need mortal infantry of any kind. Marauders are okay, Chaos warriors are better. Try to phase out blue horrors, as they are too unwieldy to use. Then use blocks of mortal infantry alternated with pink horrors. Treat pink horrors as handgunners.

Besides that, the pinkfire spell is your friend, particularly if you cast it on a unit that is just about in range of pink horrors, as the warpfire effect will then take full effect.

There's a couple of nice taches in there too, I forgot them, except this one, there's a tech that it seems to provice mana for pink horrors that are shooting. More mana = more spells = win, obviously.

Sorry, I actually asked the question in a generic way. I meant from a tactical point of view. Who do you think should be eliminated first etc

Ah gotcha. Oxyotl first and formost. From there on, it depends on who is the stronger, Teclis or The lizardmen in Lustria.

[DemandMeNothing]

Originally posted by Basarab Laiota:

trade a settlement to the slaneshi faction to the east early on to get them as a military ally, they're pretty helpful.

Really? That's good to know. They always turn on me after I knock off the last of the Nurgle faction. When's the best time to do this?

[DaBa]

Originally posted by Nazukao:

thanks guys. another question. how do you suggest to deal with enemy factions? Like Teclis, Oxyotl and Tiktaq'to?

If you're having trouble on multiple fronts, I'd hunker down and try to level up Kairos. As mentioned, magic is one of your most powerful tools and you will not really be able to use it as much unless your lord or heroes get some levels under their belt to actually use it and get more winds of magic. So, if the going is tough, hunker down and get some levels, get the spells and raise your winds of magic, and then go to town once you're powered up.

Also, one more tip: Your starting position can really only have two fronts. You either expand left or right, simple. What I would suggest is to pick an enemy, I recommend Oxyotl to begin with, and then just push in their direction until you wipe them out. Once you get strong enough you should be able to just go for it and demolish him. You enemies will attack you from the back, ignore it. You will lose territory, ignore it. As long as you're pushing forward and capturing territory from Oxyotl you should be able to continue to keep yourself afloat. Then, once you wipe out one of the enemies, you will have one of the fronts dealt with and all that's left is to retake your territory and now you have one less enemy to deal with. I had the same struggle when I played Nagarythe, you start with enemies on all sides and they declare war on you very fast. You cannot fight 3 different legendary lord factions at the same time, especially when you can barely afford a single good army. I had to literally ignore that the enemy is capturing all my settlements and just focus on wiping them out one by one, something Nagarythe excels at, keeping myself afloat almost purely with with gold from post battle loot and sacking settlements.

Basically: do not be afraid to lose territory early on. You do not have to defend everything you own, it's okay to sacrifice some of your settlements if that means you can focus on wiping out a threat and not have to deal with it in the future.

[Ant Ra]

In my experience so far, you should first completely eliminate Nurgle with Kairos, then make peace with slaanesh. This peace is indispensable, because slaanesh is guaranteed to attack kairos the moment you attack Oxyotl. This peace costs expensive gold at the time. But it is, as mentioned, indispensable.

Then you have to go to war against oxyotl, and that has to happen quickly. If you give Oxyotl too much time, 3 full stack lizard armies will roll against tzeench. End of story and restart...

As long as Oxyotl has his 2 armies mainly with tier 1, a few tier 2 units, all is well and you can take the lizard out of the game with a little tactics.

Now it's on to Teclis. For sure neither the two lizards nor the skaven will attack him. So you set yourself up for some very painful High Elf bows. They are poison for everything that Tzeench can build up at that point, but also later. I find them worse than the massive lizard units, which you can still kill with tzeench, turn by turn. But the elven bows are hell for tzeench. Good luck and without several barbarians as decoys and cannon fodder, neither the horrors nor kairos themselves have a chance to get close enough. I think there should be at least 6 barbarians against teclis, who had enough time to develop. More like 8... The loss rate is high, but there is no other way.

Once you have done that, you should definitely let slaanesh live and wait for her to become a vassal. If you take them, you have such a long distance in the chaos desert to be attacked, that it is no longer fun. The west side of the starting level is under fire from all factions that have asserted themselves on lustria (west continent) at this point and on the middle continent you get the declaration of war from all lizard factions almost immediately. Holding the territory and expanding it will be a real challenge. when Khalida and the expeditionary dwarf from the northeast arrive, it's fun. So "fun"...

If necessary, the conquered areas of oxyotl in the chaos desert can also be dragged, i.e. all settlements can be abandoned. This prevents the constant attacks of the western starter area. Of course, at the price of a significantly lower income. And tzeench belongs to the poor factions for a very long time. Must be considered.

[Basarab Laiota]

Originally posted by DemandMeNothing:

When's the best time to do this?

The earlier the better. You can only trade settlements when you share borders.

[Ballistic Groove Gun]

Originally posted by Ant Ra:

If necessary, the conquered areas of oxyotl in the chaos desert can also be dragged, i.e. all settlements can be abandoned. This prevents the constant attacks of the western starter area. Of course, at the price of a significantly lower income. And tzeench belongs to the poor factions for a very long time. Must be considered.

Another way to not draw the ire of the Lustria Bowl is to never take the port on the west side of the south pole and to never form a defensive or military alliance with the other Tzeentch that starts in possession of it, you only gain vision (and by extension factional discovery) of the western isles if you have vision of the sea region.
Minor faction AI is selectively blind some of the time and might never see the factions over yonder and they'll never know you're (player) there to attack you if you never gain vision from the port unless the lategame crisis rolls skaven or if one of them goes for a casual cruise for some reason or another.