Kholek's campaign is one of the worst.

[キャンディーアップル]

Few expansion options at the beginning, a broken enemy standing very close with permanent double army (grimgore), overall I really don't like woc mechanics but the campaigns are the most boring in the game.

[jonoliveira12]

Kholek's whole schtick is getting him ever phisically larger with vassals.
Warriors of Chaos neither need nor want to expand, just vassalize your conquests, get ONE really strong army, and roll over the world.

[zefyris]

it should have been obvious from the very start when the starting position for IE were announced last year, oer even before that really, but any starting location around the dark lands is going to feel boring until the real dark lands faction are added to the game.

Grimgor can just roll and confed all the orc tribes around and no one can stop him, because those that should stop him aren't here yet.

So if you feel like fighting in the Dark Lands before 3.0 is released is boring, and that Grimgor AI is too strong, well thank you captain obvious, I guess?

[Kalvix]

You need to kill Grimgor at the start with Kholek, he'll always go for the settlement right next to his start, that'll weaken him up enough to kill him normally.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Kholek's whole schtick is getting him ever phisically larger with vassals.
Warriors of Chaos neither need nor want to expand, just vassalize your conquests, get ONE really strong army, and roll over the world.

Ingame, WoC want to expand. The more dark forts the better.
Having merely 1 army means you better love playing whack-a-mole vassals aren't a good enough substitute for.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Kholek's whole schtick is getting him ever phisically larger with vassals.
Warriors of Chaos neither need nor want to expand, just vassalize your conquests, get ONE really strong army, and roll over the world.

Ingame, WoC want to expand. The more dark forts the better.
Having merely 1 army means you better love playing whack-a-mole vassals aren't a good enough substitute for.

No, they do not. You only need 3 Dark Fortresses at maximum, and even then you will not want the whole provinces.

WoC, in this very game, want vassals, SPECIALLY Kholek.
WoC are not empire builders, they are ruinous marauders that want to prove themselves before the gods of Chaos.
Sacking and Vassalizing is the WoC gameplay in Warhammer 3. Trust me, I play WoC a lot.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Ingame, WoC want to expand. The more dark forts the better.
Having merely 1 army means you better love playing whack-a-mole vassals aren't a good enough substitute for.

No, they do not. You only need 3 Dark Fortresses at maximum, and even then you will not want the whole provinces.

WoC, in this very game, want vassals, SPECIALLY Kholek.
WoC are not empire builders, they are ruinous marauders that want to prove themselves before the gods of Chaos.
Sacking and Vassalizing is the WoC gameplay in Warhammer 3. Trust me, I play WoC a lot.

You want as many as you can grab. Taking a DF doesn't prevent you from getting vassals, but enables you.
As i said ingame, not in lore.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

No, they do not. You only need 3 Dark Fortresses at maximum, and even then you will not want the whole provinces.

WoC, in this very game, want vassals, SPECIALLY Kholek.
WoC are not empire builders, they are ruinous marauders that want to prove themselves before the gods of Chaos.
Sacking and Vassalizing is the WoC gameplay in Warhammer 3. Trust me, I play WoC a lot.

You want as many as you can grab. Taking a DF doesn't prevent you from getting vassals, but enables you.
As i said ingame, not in lore.

No, in the game, you want the least amout of territory to defend, as WoC, as possible.
Yiu always want to be attacking, no matter what, which is why so many players struggle with WoC or Skarbrand.

[Kalvix]

Oh ye the secret to vassals is you DONT want Norscan ones, they are terrible. You want to kill a legendary lord and make them a vassal, they will do a great job of expanding for you.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Kalvix:

Oh ye the secret to vassals is you DONT want Norscan ones, they are terrible. You want to kill a legendary lord and make them a vassal, they will do a great job of expanding for you.

Norscan AI is just stupid.
You are correct in getting LL vassals.

[SBA77]

Originally posted by ♧👑 ∂ⓖｆ𝕙 ☹😂:

Few expansion options at the beginning, a broken enemy standing very close with permanent double army (grimgore), overall I really don't like woc mechanics but the campaigns are the most boring in the game.

Sounds like this actually did happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kti5NM_IbAk

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Fryskar:

You want as many as you can grab. Taking a DF doesn't prevent you from getting vassals, but enables you.
As i said ingame, not in lore.

No, in the game, you want the least amout of territory to defend, as WoC, as possible.
Yiu always want to be attacking, no matter what, which is why so many players struggle with WoC or Skarbrand.

Idc how you want to play, i'll keep saying taking DF is the correct way to play WoC.
Easy to defend and giving way too much income.

Skarbrand doesn't have plenty of DF around, not that he's a WoC anyway.

[BigRockWall]

Grimgore is the strongest vassal in the game. Him being vassalized doesn't stop him from confederating the dark lands. The fact that Kholek can rush him down before he can get a waagh rolling is a huge plus.

[DaBa]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Fryskar:

You want as many as you can grab. Taking a DF doesn't prevent you from getting vassals, but enables you.
As i said ingame, not in lore.

No, in the game, you want the least amout of territory to defend, as WoC, as possible.
Yiu always want to be attacking, no matter what, which is why so many players struggle with WoC or Skarbrand.

Excuse me, what? What you're writing makes no sense at all.

There is literally no reason at all not to own as many dark fortresses as possible. More fortresses = more income = more armies = easier conquest. This is literally the opposite of struggling more.

Why would you give your main source of income to your vassals anyway? Just so you don't have to defend it? Would you as any other race refuse to expand and lose out on free income just so you don't have to defend it? Obviously not, so why would you do this as WOC? A dark fortress that's under Vassal's control is generating you next to no income, so what you're advocating for is to avoid earning income because you'd have to defend your territory? WTF Besides, with more armies you'll be able to defend your territory without any problems. If a person is struggling with defending their own territory it's not because they are playing WOC wrong, it's because they aren't very good at the game. More income is always better, there are no exceptions.

[Ashley]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Ingame, WoC want to expand. The more dark forts the better.
Having merely 1 army means you better love playing whack-a-mole vassals aren't a good enough substitute for.

No, they do not. You only need 3 Dark Fortresses at maximum, and even then you will not want the whole provinces.

WoC, in this very game, want vassals, SPECIALLY Kholek.
WoC are not empire builders, they are ruinous marauders that want to prove themselves before the gods of Chaos.
Sacking and Vassalizing is the WoC gameplay in Warhammer 3. Trust me, I play WoC a lot.

Yeah no. There's zero reasons I can think of to not take them. Not when your goal as Chaos is to put everyone under their rule there is no reason not to take all the Dark Fortresses. Unless you want to make things harder which I guess nice flex

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by DaBa:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

No, in the game, you want the least amout of territory to defend, as WoC, as possible.
Yiu always want to be attacking, no matter what, which is why so many players struggle with WoC or Skarbrand.

Excuse me, what? What you're writing makes no sense at all.

There is literally no reason at all not to own as many dark fortresses as possible. More fortresses = more income = more armies = easier conquest. This is literally the opposite of struggling more.

Why would you give your main source of income to your vassals anyway? Just so you don't have to defend it? Would you as any other race refuse to expand and lose out on free income just so you don't have to defend it? Obviously not, so why would you do this as WOC? A dark fortress that's under Vassal's control is generating you next to no income, so what you're advocating for is to avoid earning income because you'd have to defend your territory? WTF :csd2huh: Besides, with more armies you'll be able to defend your territory without any problems. If a person is struggling with defending their own territory it's not because they are playing WOC wrong, it's because they aren't very good at the game. More income is always better, there are no exceptions.

More Dark Fortresses = more time having to defend settlements from annoying AIs = less time on the offense where WoC makes THE MOST INCOME = more time painting the map with a faction SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED NOT TO DO IT.