what actually determines the victory type?

[rman88]

Like, this isn't about what type of comp is used to auto resolve or anything. this is more why well take this for example.

I get attacked, 3 armies with around 3,000 units vs my single army. Mind you my army is better then those 3 armies combine. So i could just auto resolve. and wipe all 3 all. I chose to fight because... well i feel like it.

In short after a brutal and bloody battle. Their 3k went down to 1k. and out of the 1,300 i had only 1000 remained.

And yet this game views this as a Devastating loss. Like i barely lost 20% of my army. And yet it claims this victory is pyrric victory. The victory i accomplished was overall not worth it.

I didn't lose half my army defeating them. I didn't even get a single stack wipe. Why is the game treating this as if i lost half my army. What the hell determines the type of victory.

Like i just defeated 3 freaking armies in a single battle. Why is the game acting as if i should have reloaded the save game?

[Elitewrecker PT]

As far as I'm aware it also considers: damage taken (even if healed), and ammo and winds of magic spent

[rman88]

Why would ammo be taking into account for this? Granted i didn't run out of ammo and i am playing dwarfs. So wind of magic isn't exactly a thing.

A Pyrrhic victory means your army was nearly wiped out. if anything it should be viewed as a heroic victory. as i took out 3 armies.. granted it was more 2 or around 40 units in total. Regardless it is still 3 armies.

Why is the game claiming i failed?

[Elitewrecker PT]

It might have made more sense if it was just a close victory and not a decisive victory if you used a big portion of your ammo (ignoring the fact that ammo and magic replenishes 100% after the battle).
But I think it's something like that - "you had to spend a lot of your battle resources (even if it not manpower itself) to defeat that huge but weak army".

[rman88]

But ammo replenishes after combat.. same with magic... its not like this game has a Supply system. Where you need to Replenish ammo after every battle. Hell No game ever dose anything like that. Even games like Hearts of iron where you Literately need to make Every gun. Still dose not take into account how much ammo said gun needs.

Likewise i didn't run out of ammo.

[Elitewrecker PT]

As I said, no idea. Trying to be more realistic about the difficulty of thebattle?

[rman88]

its just stupid. as i don't recall total warhammer 2 having this issue. If anything it would be considered a close battle.

[Cujo]

I believe that Ammo affects balance of power as well. They're assuming that if you ran out of ammo you would be left with units unsuited for melee or anything else and therefore had, to a certain extent, "lost" a unit.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Originally posted by rman88:

its just stupid. as i don't recall total warhammer 2 having this issue. If anything it would be considered a close battle.

It happened some times too.

[rman88]

issue is all dwarf range units are decent in melle.. also that would only work if i "ran " out of ammo. Which i didn't to be honest my units really didn't get to shoot much due to just bumpy terrain. Regardless they were in melee a lot.

[Verchial]

This sort of thing does not seem to be well-understood.

I have also had some epic and fun battles where autoresolve shows a loss, but won with very few casualties and had a Pyrrhic victory.

Even the popular TWWH YouTubers show this on their videos and express that its confusing how WH3 calculates this.

It may be still kinda buggy and the CA folks might be working on it. I dunno.

[rman88]

Welp, the category for "victory type" should be Simple. Now, i would argue it has nothing to do with ammo or wind of magic or anything. as it is not the "difficulty" of the fight. It is the outcome of the fight itself.

Now, these comes in two categories. The first being Victories. of coarse to get a victory you need to win the fight. but how much of your army is left determine the type of victory.. A heroic victory is pretty much most of your army is alive and you took very little damage. While a Phyric victory means your army was nearly wiped out.

Likewise the same goes with defeats. A heroic defeat is the exact opposite of a Pyrrhic victory where you nearly wiped out their army. and so on so forth.

like... Adding in ammo into the equation or Winds. Both of which don't actual matter. Like i get it a mage without magic can't cast spells and most range units are useless in a melee fight. But outside of "lowering" balance of power. It really shouldn't have any affect on "how" well you are playing the game.

In fact, one could argue that using up all your ammo. Means that you actual did your job. As each shot or spell cast. Means that you did damage "theoretically" with said spell or ammo. In fact one could argue the more ammo or magical power you had. The worse you did as this means either a. Your spell caster was killed or routed off before he could use all his mana. Or your range units were attacked and routed off before they could use their ammo.

Like, why should a player be punished for using the tools at his disposal? as i am sick of the game telling me i am bad for winning the game.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Or they used the ammo and winds more efficiently.
The result of the manual battle is also crossed with an expected outcome I believe, to see if you performed better or worse than predicted.

Regardless, all victories give the same exp in wh3 whatever the type if I'm not mistaken, so it doesn't really matter.

[Jukelo]

Originally posted by rman88:

Like, why should a player be punished for using the tools at his disposal? as i am sick of the game telling me i am bad for winning the game.

The victory type has no more gameplay impact in WH3, so you're not being punished.

[Triple G]

I like it if auto-resolve sometimes gives me a heroic victory, but if i fight a manual battle which was predicted as crushing defeat and i lose like 4 models, while killing 5k of theirs - it´s a close victory. (Perhaps a bit exaggerated numbers - but not too far off.)

I guess that if You have a lord, who can solo any army - or add 2 heroes to it, which makes this possible - it´s a heroic victory in most cases. Last heroic victory i got was when Cathay used like 5 mid level stacks vs one of my high level stacks. The only downside was that i couldn´t take out their balloons and flying casting lords, and had to take more casualties than i liked to have - till they had to retreat, which somehow also took a while. But i guess chosen can tank the jade warriors all day long, so it was a more lame victory, which is somehow no official "victory type".

[rman88]

Originally posted by Jukelo:

The victory type has no more gameplay impact in WH3, so you're not being punished.

I disagree, sure their is no actual game mechanic tied to this. But the game Literately says you Suck and this battle was a failure.

In the end its annoying to be told that your Heroic victory against the odds. Was almost if not just as bad as losing.

Specialty sense it Really makes no sense. Like Trippel G hear isn't wrong. I am playing the dwarfs who are a heavily range fraction. I am using 2 rows of Range units as thunderes are good enough to hold the line. And combing them with Bugmans rangers makes for a hail of Hell. Able to in a single volley Delete entire units.

Yet this would be viewed as a Close victory most of the time. Regardless if i wiped out an army without even a single unit getting sniped.

It is just insulting that the game would call your bad at it. Specially when their is no clear reason for it. Hell, i could use the auto resolve and lose 200 to 300 units yet get a heroic victory. Only to do it manually and lose like 5 and then Close victory.

The numbers are just arbitrary.