The problem with research

[Zombiesbum]

One of the major problems I see unaddressed with each instalment of TWW is how research is handled. Basically you need to meet certain breakpoint research % for your research increments to matter.

I really don't understand why this system hasn't been changed to a point based research system, where points are given even without actively researching.

Not only are breakpoint systems harder for newer players (or players that don't want to play a maths game), but they also doesn't add any value.

TL;DR; If I have 107% research, my total research time should be 107%.

[Atomsk]

Will never happen... it makes too much sense LOL

[Professor H. Farnsworth]

Errh..
It's not that difficult to understand and most research is deceptively fast to get. You do of course have to put in a modicum of effort which is why +research buildings and lord/hero cards are very powerful.

And if you know your fractions, which .. should be elementary school math, you should be able to figure out how much your research % is currently affecting your overall time to research.

[Defmonkey]

Yeah agreed with the tipping point for %research, it is completely pointless in many instances.

[abyssalfury]

Originally posted by Professor H. Farnsworth:

Errh..
It's not that difficult to understand and most research is deceptively fast to get. You do of course have to put in a modicum of effort which is why +research buildings and lord/hero cards are very powerful.

And if you know your fractions, which .. should be elementary school math, you should be able to figure out how much your research % is currently affecting your overall time to research.

Except that's not how it works. What TC is suggesting is would change the system to what you're actually talking about.

Right now, as an example, having +10% research speed might give you +10% research speed. But it might also give you absolutely nothing, depending on how long the tech takes to research - if the 10% isn't enough to shave a turn off, then 10% faster research is not, in fact, 10% faster research.

Is it a major, game ruining issue? No, of course not. But it's an annoyance with a simple and obvious solution. The current system doesn't really see to have any actual advantage over a points system as TC is suggesting.

[Defmonkey]

You don't have to figure out your current %research level. It tells you in the top corner in the research page. Unless that has been changed in recent build.

[SomeGuy1]

What OP is saying is that excess research on a tech on a turn should roll over to the next tech you choose, instead of simply being lost and wasted. And yeah, I could get behind that.

but op... uh...

Originally posted by Zombiesbum:

TL;DR; If I have 107% research, my total research time should be 107%.

you need to work on your math... as your speed goes up, total time taken goes down. If your research rate is 107%, your research time should be... uh... 107t=100... 93.5% of normal.

[Amereth]

Originally posted by SomeGuy1:

What OP is saying is that excess research on a tech on a turn should roll over to the next tech you choose, instead of simply being lost and wasted. And yeah, I could get behind that.

but op... uh...

Originally posted by Zombiesbum:

TL;DR; If I have 107% research, my total research time should be 107%.

you need to work on your math... as your speed goes up, total time taken goes down. If your research rate is 107%, your research time should be... uh... 107t=100... 93.5% of normal.

meh... it is way better if it takes 7% more time... i vote for 107%.

[Zombiesbum]

Originally posted by SomeGuy1:

What OP is saying is that excess research on a tech on a turn should roll over to the next tech you choose, instead of simply being lost and wasted. And yeah, I could get behind that.

but op... uh...

Originally posted by Zombiesbum:

TL;DR; If I have 107% research, my total research time should be 107%.

you need to work on your math... as your speed goes up, total time taken goes down. If your research rate is 107%, your research time should be... uh... 107t=100... 93.5% of normal.

I meant research speed should be 107%. Obviously.

[Triple G]

But isn´t it that way? I never looked at it, but e.g. You have 100 research points per turn, and some tech takes like 400 points, which means 4 turns. Then with 107% You have 321 points after three turns, which means You need a forth turn to complete the tech anyway. But then the remaining 28 points wouldn´t be carried over to the next tech, which perhaps also takes 400 points.

I guess it´s about that. Probably in game it is handled different, so You can´t carry over points as these are never calculated, but the principle is the same.

[SpeaksTooFast]

OK I am honestly unsure as to what your actual problem is or how you would have it handled better. Like if extra research from a previous turn paid forward would that fix your issue?

Most factions have a number of ways to boost their research... I get that it only really impacts at certain "breakpoints" but I honestly think your apparent aversion to basic math is making you overthink the system as a whole.

[Zombiesbum]

Originally posted by SpeaksTooFast:

OK I am honestly unsure as to what your actual problem is or how you would have it handled better. Like if extra research from a previous turn paid forward would that fix your issue?

Most factions have a number of ways to boost their research... I get that it only really impacts at certain "breakpoints" but I honestly think your apparent aversion to basic math is making you overthink the system as a whole.

This has nothing to do with some aversion to math. Let me extend the same level of insult to you and suggest that you seem unable to read.

[SpeaksTooFast]

Originally posted by Zombiesbum:

Originally posted by SpeaksTooFast:

OK I am honestly unsure as to what your actual problem is or how you would have it handled better. Like if extra research from a previous turn paid forward would that fix your issue?

Most factions have a number of ways to boost their research... I get that it only really impacts at certain "breakpoints" but I honestly think your apparent aversion to basic math is making you overthink the system as a whole.

This has nothing to do with some aversion to math. Let me extend the same level of insult to you and suggest that you seem unable to read.

Dude I asked a simple question, what is your actual problem and how would you fix it? Repeatedly stating 107% and saying there are points in some context does neither.

[SomeGuy1]

Originally posted by SpeaksTooFast:

OK I am honestly unsure as to what your actual problem is or how you would have it handled better. Like if extra research from a previous turn paid forward would that fix your issue?

Most factions have a number of ways to boost their research... I get that it only really impacts at certain "breakpoints" but I honestly think your apparent aversion to basic math is making you overthink the system as a whole.

the entire issue OP is bringing up is exactly what you described: that benefits are on breakpoints instead of the curve being smooth. That when a tech is completed, excess progress is lost instead of banked for the next tech. And yes, for that "extra research to be paid forward" is exactly what he's proposing to fix it.

[SpeaksTooFast]

Originally posted by SomeGuy1:

the entire issue OP is bringing up is exactly what you described: that benefits are on breakpoints instead of the curve being smooth. That when a tech is completed, excess progress is lost instead of banked for the next tech. And yes, for that "extra research to be paid forward" is exactly what he's proposing to fix it.

Thank you for clarifying.

With regard to carrying over excess, while I see what you want and why you are asking for at this point in a games development I do not believe it is a reasonable expectation or would have any meaningful effect on game play as a whole.

The Total War Warhammer series is about smashing together knights, dragons, and dinosaurs. There is no victory condition for scientific achievement. This game does a lot of things and while I do have a number of issues with how research is handled carrying over excess research from a previous turn is no where near the top of the list.

If I had to pick one problem with research in this game it would be the Demons of Chaos faction as a whole.

[Amereth]

Originally posted by SpeaksTooFast:

Originally posted by SomeGuy1:

the entire issue OP is bringing up is exactly what you described: that benefits are on breakpoints instead of the curve being smooth. That when a tech is completed, excess progress is lost instead of banked for the next tech. And yes, for that "extra research to be paid forward" is exactly what he's proposing to fix it.

Thank you for clarifying.

With regard to carrying over excess, while I see what you want and why you are asking for at this point in a games development I do not believe it is a reasonable expectation or would have any meaningful effect on game play as a whole.

The Total War Warhammer series is about smashing together knights, dragons, and dinosaurs. There is no victory condition for scientific achievement. This game does a lot of things and while I do have a number of issues with how research is handled carrying over excess research from a previous turn is no where near the top of the list.

If I had to pick one problem with research in this game it would be the Demons of Chaos faction as a whole.

playing as the dark elves i wouldn't mind having faster research. It takes way too much time to research their stuff...