[Lore] Gork/Mork, actual good guys ?

[Virthuss (法國人在台灣)]

Lore question for the people who read the books and know well about the Warhammer universe in general.

So from my understanding, the known world was there before the coming of the old ones. Since the old ones tried to eradicate the greenskins, using the lizardmen they created, we can consider greenskins and Gork and Mork as the first inhabitants and deities of the old world, and as undesired ones.

It's true that then greenskins fought everyone in their path, including themselves. It's also true that they breed and eat using spores, which mean they don't have to think too much or change anything to their primitive habits.

So since they fought both rising empires ( human, dwarf... ) but also rising evil or chaotic threat such as chaos dwarves, skaven and Chaos to the point Gork teleported Grimgor to Archeon for a final clash, can we somehow consider greenskins and Gork and Mork as the original good guys, basically the original deities of the known world fighting whoever invade and try to either colonize or destroy the known world ?

To compare, can we compare greenskins in Warhammer to the Contingency of Stellaris, basically a safeguard preventing any potential threat to reign or threaten the known world as the planet itself ?
Which would mean there would be 3 actual factions:
- order ( "good" creations of the old ones )
- chaos
- known world neutral ( basically fighting to keep the world in its original state, untainted by neither chaos or civilisation )

Just trying to understand the Lore a bit more. Thanks in advance!

[Nella]

There is a theory that Warhammer Fantasy is actually a planet within the Eye of terror in Warhammer 40K.

That is the reason the planet has such a strong connection with the warp and why they share the same chaos gods.

And why other than the Demons and Orcs, every other race shares nothing to extremely with their 40K counterparts.

The orcs on this planet however are cut off from the bigger WAAAAAAAGHS going on in the galaxy and because they are stupid, they forgor about the outside world.

Thus, Gork And Mork would be the same alignment as Gork and Mork in 40k.

[Nella]

However, in the new lore with Age of Sigmar, they lean more to the good side.

They still love a good fight, but have a mutual respect for the order races, and would rather fight with them than against them.

A lot of times, the Order Races would point the orcs in a the direction of evil, and say you will find a good fight there, and let the orcs do what orcs do.

So I suppose Gork and Mork would also fall into that category of Neutral, but leaning more towards good.

[Kapika96]

Origineel geplaatst door Militante,Purgante,Triumphante:

Greenskins are more like cosmic horror cthulhu style because what they define (good) is not what manlings percibed

Cthulhu style would be more incomprehensible to man, no? What the greenskins define as "good" is definitely something that some humans would agree with. Not the majority, but it's certainly not an alien concept at least.

[Magarita S P]

Origineel geplaatst door Virthuss (法國人在台灣):

Origineel geplaatst door Militante,Purgante,Triumphante:

vampires,especialy von carstein and lahmia,are those who fighting what become too much a threat,and also skaven before endtimes do that

But both vampires and skaven seek domination over others while the primitive nature of orcs prevents them from organizing anything close to a stable kingdom.

erh not really
Wurzzag and Grimgor in fantasy and Gazkul in 40k both established(also the empire of Octarius,of the beast and of Ulanor for example) organised empires.In the last battle of Middenheim when Archaon cheated and killed Grimgor his Inmortalez didnt rout like normal greenskins but instead they keep fight on and hurt the swords of chaos badly give Sigmar time to push in
Greenskins just need a big,big leader,to make a big,big war.Its more like they not always have a charismatic leader,than they cant establish a stable kingdom
Vampires,on the other hands are more......autodestructive than greenskins.At least greenskins while fighting each other they are all bound by waaaaaagh but vampires just backstab anyone at anytime if got any chance.Look at Manny,lmao
Yeah and Manny in AoS backstab chaos and backstab Sigmar at the same time,what prevent him backstab Nagash is that Nagash can wipe his existence out in a very clean way in 40k....but he already did that in Middenheim so....

[Magarita S P]

Origineel geplaatst door Nella:

There is a theory that Warhammer Fantasy is actually a planet within the Eye of terror in Warhammer 40K.

That is the reason the planet has such a strong connection with the warp and why they share the same chaos gods.

And why other than the Demons and Orcs, every other race shares nothing to extremely with their 40K counterparts.

The orcs on this planet however are cut off from the bigger WAAAAAAAGHS going on in the galaxy and because they are stupid, they forgor about the outside world.

Thus, Gork And Mork would be the same alignment as Gork and Mork in 40k.

When Ariel sent to another world to build a new home for the elves,she was assaulted by daemons and Kaldor Draigo helpt them lmao and it was varguely cannon

[MrSoul]

Origineel geplaatst door cinless:

No the orcs aren't native either. Fantasy and 40k aren't the same world, but orks in 40k and orcs in fantasy are pretty much the same guys, reproduce with spores and everything. Came in from space.

Yeah, is no exact origin for them in fantasy unlike sci fy, but something about aspect of mork/gork, asteroid or something hit planet way back containing them.

Is also a huge difference far as plot concerned with them as pointing out. In science fiction actually a sister race of the eldar old ones made to fight chaos but never finished(why they’re so crude) before old ones dipped out. Why Eldar often exploit orks as a natural force so easily, on some level they are in tune with each other as was entire plan for them to be lead by eldar in war.

In fantasy, despite old ones still doing whole cultivate evolution gambit, one of few races they had nothing to do with, they just show up or become aware of them round same time.

[Imposter]

Origineel geplaatst door Nella:

There is a theory that Warhammer Fantasy is actually a planet within the Eye of terror in Warhammer 40K.

That is the reason the planet has such a strong connection with the warp and why they share the same chaos gods.

And why other than the Demons and Orcs, every other race shares nothing to extremely with their 40K counterparts.

The orcs on this planet however are cut off from the bigger WAAAAAAAGHS going on in the galaxy and because they are stupid, they forgor about the outside world.

Thus, Gork And Mork would be the same alignment as Gork and Mork in 40k.

The in 40k they have Krorks....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q2AP_z8ia5E

[Virthuss (法國人在台灣)]

Origineel geplaatst door Nella:

However, in the new lore with Age of Sigmar, they lean more to the good side.

They still love a good fight, but have a mutual respect for the order races, and would rather fight with them than against them.

A lot of times, the Order Races would point the orcs in a the direction of evil, and say you will find a good fight there, and let the orcs do what orcs do.

So I suppose Gork and Mork would also fall into that category of Neutral, but leaning more towards good.

That's how I see them in the old world. Basically they fight whoever is worth it, usually big threats like skavens and Chaos.

Pretty sad that they stomped Cathay, but I guess this is due to Cathay showing up after the end times was already implemented by GW.

Basically AoS orcs are literally the Godzilla of Warhammer.

[Magarita S P]

Origineel geplaatst door Nella:

However, in the new lore with Age of Sigmar, they lean more to the good side.

They still love a good fight, but have a mutual respect for the order races, and would rather fight with them than against them.

A lot of times, the Order Races would point the orcs in a the direction of evil, and say you will find a good fight there, and let the orcs do what orcs do.

So I suppose Gork and Mork would also fall into that category of Neutral, but leaning more towards good.

Greenskins can have a sense of respect to worthy opponent but it doesnt mean they are (good)
in 40k greenskins mercenaries are very comun and Yarrik is also being generaly respected