[Lore] Gork/Mork, actual good guys ?

[Virthuss (法國人在台灣)]

Lore question for the people who read the books and know well about the Warhammer universe in general.

So from my understanding, the known world was there before the coming of the old ones. Since the old ones tried to eradicate the greenskins, using the lizardmen they created, we can consider greenskins and Gork and Mork as the first inhabitants and deities of the old world, and as undesired ones.

It's true that then greenskins fought everyone in their path, including themselves. It's also true that they breed and eat using spores, which mean they don't have to think too much or change anything to their primitive habits.

So since they fought both rising empires ( human, dwarf... ) but also rising evil or chaotic threat such as chaos dwarves, skaven and Chaos to the point Gork teleported Grimgor to Archeon for a final clash, can we somehow consider greenskins and Gork and Mork as the original good guys, basically the original deities of the known world fighting whoever invade and try to either colonize or destroy the known world ?

To compare, can we compare greenskins in Warhammer to the Contingency of Stellaris, basically a safeguard preventing any potential threat to reign or threaten the known world as the planet itself ?
Which would mean there would be 3 actual factions:
- order ( "good" creations of the old ones )
- chaos
- known world neutral ( basically fighting to keep the world in its original state, untainted by neither chaos or civilisation )

Just trying to understand the Lore a bit more. Thanks in advance!

[Central]

i think that it is unknown how and when the orcs came to the world.
it is most likely that their spores arrived on the world with the coming of the old ones.

what little we do know from the history before the old ones arrives tells us that the dragons ruled the world, i dont remember reading anything about orcs being there.

[Kopejka]

From what I know about wh lore, Orks are more like an unstoppable force of nature.
Meaning they don't really care who's good and who's bad as long as there's fighting to be done.
The only affiliation that makes sense is them respecting whoever fights the hardest.
I might be wrong, but it does seem pretty accurate

[Conflagration]

Greenskins did not exist in the world before the coming of the Old Ones; their spores actually hitched a ride on the Old Ones spaceships (presumably they visited a world that had them at some point) and thus settled and began to multiply without the Old Ones' knowledge.

There were actual inhabitants before the coming of the Old Ones; Dragon Ogres, Dragons, Fimir, Forest Spirits and various other ancient and now extinct races. The Old Ones either used the Lizardmen to wipe out or attempted to wipe out a multitude of these races, including the Greenskins when they discovered them. The coming of Chaos in the Great Catastrophe put a stop to this, allowing the Greenskins (and other races that later turned to Chaos) to survive.

Greenskins are absolutely not good guys and the subject of deities and their origination is a complicated and messy subject in Warhammer.

[cb4n28]

Greenskins were not one of the original races inhabiting the Warhammer Fantasy world before the coming of the Old Ones. They arrived in the middle of the Great Plan

[Magarita S P]

Greenskins are more like cosmic horror cthulhu style because what they define (good) is not what manlings percibed

[Imposter]

Yes, Greenskins are the only protagonists in the game.

[drazan]

Greenskins are not good and not bad at the same time
They will fight whoever puts up a fight, be it good guys or bad guys.

That's all they care about, continious fighting.

[theunspeakable]

Gork/Mork are more congealed Orky instinct than actual gods. Although, considering the difference given to them by the Ruinous Powers, it is theorized that they are they most powerful Warp entities and the only thing stopping them for overrunning the Immaterium, as the only thing stopping the Orkz from overrunning the physical world, is that they are constantly fighting each other.

Are they Good? No. Are they Evil? No. Iz dey Orky? WAAAAAAAAAGH!

[cb4n28]

Originally posted by drazan:

Greenskins are not good and not bad at the same time
They will fight whoever puts up a fight, be it good guys or bad guys.

That's all they care about, continious fighting.

I don't know, I think from our perspective we could label them as clearly evil. Beyond just wanting to fight, they are casually cruel and enjoy inflicting suffering on others. Greenskins; particularly the gobbos, gnoblars and snotlings, but really all of them to a notable extent; enjoy torturing other living beings

Take this passage from the Skarsnik novel describing the fate of villagers captured after a Greenskins raid

Originally posted by Skarsnik by Guy Haley, beginning on page 49 of the Kindle Edition of the Warlords of Karak Eigh Peaks Omnibus:

They feasted on man and horse alike, gorging themselves on half-raw hunks of meat. The young of the village, squalling infants broiled like chicken…they brought the women down later in the day. What they did, I will not speak of, but they understood well enough how to evoke anguish in the hearts of those men watching. When done with poor Esme and the rest, they raked the coals of the fire onto the floor. They dragged in the innkeeper’s son. To the wailing of terrible pipes they made him dance a jig barefoot on the coals. Every attempt he made to escape was met with a wall of spear butts. His screams were a terrible song. The greenskins found it hilarious, laughing and cheering and mimicking his agonised hopping. Eventually he could dance no more. He fell to his knees and howled. They dragged him from the coals, put out his eyes and pulled him away into the night. I never saw him again.

There are tons of other passages in that book describing incredible cruelty and a love of torture on the part of the Greenskins, making it clear that this behavior wasn't an isolated incident.

I mean I don't want to get into an argument about the definition of evil, but if broiling babies, making prisoners watch as you sexually torture some people to death just to make your captives feel "anguish" and then forcing a teenager to dance on hot coals until he falls to his knees in agony then gouging his eyes out just for laughs isn't the behavior of bad guys, I don't know what is

[MrSoul]

So this but orcs instead of "life" basically?
https://youtu.be/oijEsqT2QKQ

[Funky Monk]

GREEN IZ DA BEST!

[SpeaksTooFast]

Originally posted by cb4n28:

I don't know, I think from our perspective we could label them as clearly evil.

I would not call the greenskin gods evil per se, but many of the folowers of the brutal n cunning deities lean more into the brutal aspect since it seems easier for most to obtain and is therefore a short cut to venerating the gods.

I do like how in the 40k version of the settings the greenskins are the most joyful race in the setting and if their numbers get up enough tend more to true neutral than "evil".

[Imposter]

Originally posted by SpeaksTooFast:

Originally posted by cb4n28:

I don't know, I think from our perspective we could label them as clearly evil.

I would not call the greenskin gods evil per se, but many of the folowers of the brutal n cunning deities lean more into the brutal aspect since it seems easier for most to obtain and is therefore a short cut to venerating the gods.

I do like how in the 40k version of the settings the greenskins are the most joyful race in the setting and if their numbers get up enough tend more to true neutral than "evil".

Uhh(Heh).. Ok, im going to say this only 1 more frikken time, for the reading impaired: GREENSKINS ARE THE ONLY PROTAGONIST. END OF FREAKIN' STORY. NO "IFS ANDZ OR BUTTS.

[Kalder (Totally a Hobb)]

They are Green Guys, nuff' said.

[cinless]

No the orcs aren't native either. Fantasy and 40k aren't the same world, but orks in 40k and orcs in fantasy are pretty much the same guys, reproduce with spores and everything. Came in from space.