Theorycraft - Southern Realms/Dogs of War Roster

[[L9] Rhinopotamus]

This is my ideal theorycrafted roster for the combined Southern Realms/Dogs of War roster. It's not meant to be a discussion if the two should be separate or combined. If DoW should exclusively be a "Mercenary Update" to the game. In my opinion, and based on the lore, the two forces are inseparable. Tilea and The Border Princes rely heavily and in many cases almost exclusively on mercenaries, such as The Dogs of War.

Not all of these ideas are inherently my own are inspired by other's ideas I've seen on Reddit, Workshop Mods, the Total War Forum, and Youtube Channels such as MilkandCookiesTW and The Great Book of Grudges.

So let's begin.

Legendary Lords

- Borgio the Besieger, the defacto "Faction Leader" of the Southern Realms and the primary character of the Dogs of War. Ruling from the most prominent Southern Realms city-state, Miragliano.

- Gashnag the Black, the Cursed Prince of the Border Princes, a somewhat-benevolent Strigoi who uses the Wind of Ulgu to disguise himself at day, but likely still uses the bestial strength his bloodline is known for at night to protect his territory.

- Asarnil the Dragonlord, an exiled High Elf of Caledor, and famed dragonrider. He's leader of his wandering mercenary band, possibly known as "The Dogs of War". His faction could be a semi-nomadic.

- ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Maneater, the original Maneater himself and once a central character of the Dogs of War roster/supplement. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ could be in the Ogre Kingdoms, but he's really not a leader of a tribe anymore. He's more mercenary then he is Ogre Tyrant at this point, and I think the game as a whole would benefit more if he joined the Southern Realms/Dogs of War.

Lords & Heroes

- Mercenary General - Sword/dagger or sword/pistol, maybe multiple variants lord.
Possible Mounts: Barded Warhorse, Pegasus and War Wagon

- Maneater Tyrant - Monstrous melee lord, it's a generic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
Possible Mounts: None or maybe a Rhinox?

- Merchant Prince - Ranged support lord. Think wealthy merchant who's able to hire his own private army to venture into mercenary contracts.
Possible Mounts: Barded Warhorse, War Wagon, and Paymasters Cart

- Paymaster - Support/morale hero the anchor of your army when you don't have a strong lord to lead or rally them, like a Necromancer for the Vampire Counts.
Possible Mounts: Paymasters Cart, Grand Paymasters Cart, and Extravagant Paymasters Cart

- Mercenary Captain - Melee hero, it's your generic melee hero. He's qualified as a "Mercenary Hero" and shares recruitment capacity with other "Mercenary Heroes". Which I'll get into at the end of the initial roster.
Possible Mounts: Barded Warhorse, Pegasus , and War Wagon

- Hireling Wizard - Spellcaster hero, it's your generic spellcaster hero. He's qualified as a "Hireling Wizard" and shares recruitment capacity with other "Hireling Wizards".
Possible Mounts: Warhorse and Barded Warhorse

- Bounty Hunter - Melee/ranged hybrid duelist hero. He's qualified as a "Mercenary Adventurer" and shares recruitment capacity with other "Mercenary Adventurers".
Possible Mounts: Barded Warhorse

Unit Roster

Melee Infantry
- Militia Spearmen - Light anti-large infantry.
- Militia Spearmen (Shields) - The previous unit + shields.
- Militia Swordsmen - Sword and shield light infantry.
- Militia Pikemen - The late inclusion of pikes to Total War Warhammer.
- Paymaster Bodyguard - Halberd wielding heavy infantry with the guardian trait.
- Republican Guard - Heavy pike infantry.

Ranged Infantry
- Militia Crossbowmen - ranged light infantry
- Pavise Crossbowmen - Shielded. Could be similar to Crane Gunners or Jezzails or could be like Pavise Crossbowmen from Medieval II.

Monstrous Infantry
- Maneaters
- Maneaters (Ironfists)
- Maneaters (Great Weapons)
- Maneaters (Ogre Pistols)
- Maneaters Leadbelchers

Melee Cavalry
- Merchant Lancers - Basic medium shock cavalry, lighter then Empire Knights.
- Knights of the Blazing Sun - They have a large chapter house is in Magritta, Estalia. Probably only recruitable from there.

Ranged Cavalry/Chariots
- Merchant Dragoons - Handgun light cavalry
- Merchant Pistoleros - Pistol light cavalry
- War Wagons - Handguns & crossbows unlike the Empire's repeater gun variants.
- War Wagons (Grenade Launchers) - Grenade launchers are fun, and they are mercenaries.
- Paymasters Cart - Single Entity support chariot similar to Corpse Cart.
- Grand Paymasters Cart - A shinier version.
- Extravagant Paymasters Cart - An even shinier version.

Note: War Wagons were not uncommon or used by a single nation during the Age of Pike & Shot. As Mercenaries are wanderers War Wagons make a lot of sense as they both assist in carrying supplies and act as a battlefield tool. We could possible get some "Formation" where the wagons can be used to create a barricade from which they shoot and other units can use as cover.

Artillery
- Galloper Guns - Light, horsedrawn cannons.
- Great Cannons - Equivalent to Empire Great Cannons, Dwarf Cannons, and Carronades.
- Bombards - Functioning as a shotgun; it fires grape shot.
- Mortars - Equivalent to Empire Mortars and Vampire Coast Mortars.

Tilean Units

Recruited from the provinces of Tilea and Sartosa, or recruited from a unique building only available to "Tilean" factions such as Borgio the Besieger's faction.

- Mercenary Duelists - Sword & buckler medium infantry.
- Mercenary Duelists (Dual Weapons) - Medium anti-infantry infantry.
- Merchant Crossbowmen - light pavise crossbowmen, higher quality then militia or Empire Crossbowmen.
- Merchant Pikeman - Medium pikemen somewhere between Milita Pikemen and Republican Guard.

Sartosan Units

Recruited from the province of Sartosa (and maybe The Galleon's Graveyard?). Also possibly accessible new units for Aranessa Saltspite.

- Sartosan Free Company - The current sword & pistol unit in-game.
- Sartosan Free Company (Dual Weapons) - The current dual wielding unit in-game.
- Sartosan Handgunners - Melee/ranged hybrid handgun pirates.
- Sartosan Handcannons - Shotgun pirates!

Border Prince Units

Recruited from the provinces of The Northern Border Princes, Southern Border Princes, and The Blood River Valley. Also recruitable from a unique building only available to "Border Prince" factions such as Gashnag the Black's faction.

- Borderlands Rangers - Vanguard longbowmen w/ stalk (?)
- Borderlands Horsemen - Vanguard medium cavalry
- Principality Guard - Heavy greataxe infantry, inspired by the Varangian Guard.
- Mercenary Giant - Another giant, but this one has a fancy hat and a mustache (for the ladies)!
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8wZrLR

Estalian Units

Recruited from the provinces of Estalia and the Settler's Coast. Also recruitable from a unique building only available to "Estalian" factions such as Estalia...

- Tercio Swordsmen - Medium sword & shield infantry.
- Tercio Pikemen - Medium pikeman, maybe slightly better then Merchant Pikemen?
- Tercio Crossbowmen - Medium crossbowmen.
- Estalian Knights - Heavy melee shock cavalry; they're Knights.

Note; Tercio units would have something similar to the Ying/Yang mechanic benefiting from state buffs if near another Tercio unit of a different type.

Unique Mechanics - Mercenary Heroes/Hirling Wizards/Mercenary Adventurers

The Southern Realms/Dogs of War would have access to heroes from other rosters through unique dilemmas and each unique faction would have access to certain other race heroes in their general replenishing hero pool.

Mercenary Heroes would include: Mercenary Empire Captain, Maneater Bruiser, Outcast Dragonslayer, Exiled Noble, Merceanry Druhzina Captain (if we ever see them as a Kislevite Hero), Wandering Huskarl (if we ever see them as a Norscan Hero), and Exiled Master.

Hireling Wizards would include: Wandering Alchemist, Shrouded Sorcerer (possible Arabian Dark Wizard?), Exiled Mages, and a Maneater Butcher.

Mercenary Adventurers would include: Wandering Vampire, Wandering Dragon-Blooded Shugenan Monk (Melee-Spellcaster hybrid with Yin/Yang variants. if we ever see something similar for Cathay), Wandering Fimir Balefiend, Wandering Vampire Fleet Captain, Outcast Engineer, Maneater Hunter, Wandering Waystalker, and Wandering Witch Hunter.

Unique Mechanics - Mercenary Contracts/Mercenary Camps

The Southern Realms/Dogs of War would have access to a revamped contract system. How I envision this system working is something along the lines of this. Factions place contracts to take certain settlements, defeat a certain number of their enemy's armies, and do so for them; they get the settlements you take as part of the contract. You accept the contract, and have so long to complete. However, you're a famed mercenary you travel the globe doing this stuff and so you can take contracts from all over and by doing so you will dispatch a caravan style lord to the "hiring" faction's closest provincial capital. Once arrived this army becomes a mercenary camp. From where you can recruit a lord and transfer units.

These camps are where other factions can recruit DoW (RoR) units and other lesser mercenary units from your roster.

When playing as another faction though you can instead hire the Southern Realms/DoW to fight for you and can pay money to them, they send an army, set up a camp in your territory, but you get to "borrow army" without a Military Alliance, and can recruit your own units to said army... which will remain once it returns to them.

Unique Mechanic - The Ivory Road/Caravans

It feels weird that there are only ever caravans flowing one direction in the game. When there are in the lore caravans coming from, mostly, the Southern Realms into Cathay to trade for silk, spice, and ivory.

It's a Southern Realms caravan. It makes you money and items. Because these guys are all about making money and seeing the globe.

Unique Mechanics - Mercenaries

Just the possibility to recruit a small selection of units from other factions when you set up a mercenary camp in their territory. Example would be setting up a camp in Wood Elf Territory would allow you to recruit Glade Riders (Spears), Glade Riders (Hagbane Tips), Deepwood Scouts, and War Hawk Riders while setting up one Kislev would allow Kossars, Armoured Kossars, Armoured Kossars (Great Weapons), and Winged Lancers.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Maneater's faction "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥'s Maneaters" would inherently have access to Crushers, Ironblasters, and the Maneater Mercenary heroes.

Asarnil's faction "The Dogs of War (?)" would have access to a wide array of extra units from The Empire, High Elves, Wood Elves, and Kislev. As well as the Exiled Noble and Exiled Mage heroes.

Future DLCs to add onto this much later down the line could focus on Estalia, Mechanic Warmachines from Miragliano with Lucrezzia as a Legendary lord, or Araby. I love Dani Delgado's Estalian faction concept art and would love to see that included as it's own DLC.

Additional or Replacement Legendary lords are obviously Lucrezzia Belledona, Leitpold the Black, Marco Columbo, and Long Drong the Slayer Pirate (less likely) or some made up Pirate/Privateer Lord.

Some of the Inspiration:

https://www.artstation.com/danilagi7/albums/8050001

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2927296206

https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/305812/a-wholly-southern-realms-based-roster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re6ESk2RTNk&t=1s

[A.Pot]

Nah, Golg would end up as an Ogre character because he was moved to the Ogre Kingdoms by 6th and after. Gashnag is extremely unlikely due to being a minor RPG character and Asarnil would more likely just be a character in the way Gotrek and Felix are, if he even pops up at all.

Borgio the Besieger is definitely a strong contender along with Lucrezzia Belladona simply due to filling the Mage archetype. Characters like Lorenzo Lupo also has a good chance but who knows who will be the fourth, hopefully someone who does not do the exact same thing as some of the others.

[[L9] Rhinopotamus]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

Nah, Golg would end up as an Ogre character because he was moved to the Ogre Kingdoms by 6th and after. Gashnag is extremely unlikely due to being a minor RPG character and Asarnil would more likely just be a character in the way Gotrek and Felix are, if he even pops up at all.

Borgio the Besieger is definitely a strong contender along with Lucrezzia Belladona simply due to filling the Mage archetype. Characters like Lorenzo Lupo also has a good chance but who knows who will be the fourth, hopefully someone who does not do the exact same thing as some of the others.

Golg might end up in the Ogre Kingdoms, maybe, but I wouldn't say gauranteed. Ogres have enough lore to generate 4+ Legendary Lords without him. Also he doesn't appear in the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms Army Book... he appears in their 8th Edition Army book, 8th Edition didn't have DoW, but even his 8th Edition text says he's commonly found amongst the Dogs of War.

Gashnag has gained a lot of popularity with the community even showing up on the radar of most of the major Total War/Warhammer Youtubers following Cataph's original Southern Realms mod. If Cylostra, Aranessa, and Helman Ghorst can make in the game why can't he?

Asarnil is the most famous Dogs of War character after Borgio and Golg... He's almost certainly gonna be a Legendary Lord. Not a single entity unit, not a Legendary Hero, likely a Legendary Lord. The purpose of Dogs of War is to not be all humans. If it's all humans it's just another Empire, Kislev, and Bretonnia. Nothing new and that's not what Southern Realms or Dogs of War is about; it's a bunch of misfits, mercenaries, and misfit mercenaries. The idea that a Human, a Strigoi, an Elf, and an Ogre walk into a bar...

All of these characters do something unique for the race. Borgio is a mercenary, but he rules from Miragliano and he's the human-focused lore. He's a melee powerhouse, but he's not a monstrous character and he doesn't have a monstrous mount. Golg is a melee/ranged hybrid monstrous character with a focus on ogre units, and likely immediately going after the people who just hired him if they are weak. Gashnag is a monstrous spellcaster who's just got a uniquely cool story and the only other "big" Border Prince character is Leitpold the Black... who's just a weaker version of Borgio. Asarnil is the wandering mercenary duelist with a dragon... need I say more?

Lucrezzia is fine and cool, but she's not as unique as the others, and fanconcepts of Estalia, much like many of the concepts for Khuresh, are just down right awesome and deserve their own dedicated part of a DLC.

[A.Pot]

Originally posted by L9 Rhinopotamus:

Golg might end up in the Ogre Kingdoms, maybe, but I wouldn't say gauranteed. Ogres have enough lore to generate 4+ Legendary Lords without him. Also he doesn't appear in the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms Army Book... he appears in their 8th Edition Army book, 8th Edition didn't have DoW, but even his 8th Edition text says he's commonly found amongst the Dogs of War.

Gashnag has gained a lot of popularity with the community even showing up on the radar of most of the major Total War/Warhammer Youtubers following Cataph's original Southern Realms mod. If Cylostra, Aranessa, and Helman Ghorst can make in the game why can't he?

Asarnil is the most famous Dogs of War character after Borgio and Golg... He's almost certainly gonna be a Legendary Lord. Not a single entity unit, not a Legendary Hero, likely a Legendary Lord. The purpose of Dogs of War is to not be all humans. If it's all humans it's just another Empire, Kislev, and Bretonnia. Nothing new and that's not what Southern Realms or Dogs of War is about; it's a bunch of misfits, mercenaries, and misfit mercenaries. The idea that a Human, a Strigoi, an Elf, and an Ogre walk into a bar...

All of these characters do something unique for the race. Borgio is a mercenary, but he rules from Miragliano and he's the human-focused lore. He's a melee powerhouse, but he's not a monstrous character and he doesn't have a monstrous mount. Golg is a melee/ranged hybrid monstrous character with a focus on ogre units, and likely immediately going after the people who just hired him if they are weak. Gashnag is a monstrous spellcaster who's just got a uniquely cool story and the only other "big" Border Prince character is Leitpold the Black... who's just a weaker version of Borgio. Asarnil is the wandering mercenary duelist with a dragon... need I say more?

Lucrezzia is fine and cool, but she's not as unique as the others, and fanconcepts of Estalia, much like many of the concepts for Khuresh, are just down right awesome and deserve their own dedicated part of a DLC.

No. Golg would be an Ogre Kingdoms character because that is where still was even by 8th Edition.

Gashnag still would be extremely unlikely because he was never even a usable tabletop character. If anything he would pop up not as a Dogs of War character but a Vampire Counts character to represent the Strigoi bloodline, assuming of course that CA gives them the same treatment as Warriors of Chaos for the Champions DLC.

Asarnil is literally just mercenary Imrik. He even has the same exact special rule where Dragons are very reluctant to fight him. I am pretty sure that if he was introduced, it would be quickly noted how an already FLC character does the same thing as he does.

Lucrezzia is still a strong candidate unless you can put forth a better character from the official army books who fills the Mage role because literally every race with the obvious exception of Dwarfs and Khorne has a character who fills that role as a dedicated caster.

The core units of the Dogs of War army are mostly supposed to be humans though. Its supposed to be their thing that they are meant to mostly be guys from Tilea at the core of its army. The Army Book even gives a lot of details about the city states of Tilea because that part of the world is where they are focused on.

Using Cataph's mod is just grasping at straws for characters, especially since it uses a lot of fan made material or really obscure RPG that would in no way pop up in Total War Warhammer.

[SBA77]

Originally posted by L9 Rhinopotamus:

This is my ideal theorycrafted roster for the combined Southern Realms/Dogs of War roster. It's not meant to be a discussion if the two should be separate or combined. If DoW should exclusively be a "Mercenary Update" to the game. In my opinion, and based on the lore, the two forces are inseparable. Tilea and The Border Princes rely heavily and in many cases almost exclusively on mercenaries, such as The Dogs of War.

Not all of these ideas are inherently my own are inspired by other's ideas I've seen on Reddit, Workshop Mods, the Total War Forum, and Youtube Channels such as MilkandCookiesTW and The Great Book of Grudges.

So let's begin.

Legendary Lords

- Borgio the Besieger, the defacto "Faction Leader" of the Southern Realms and the primary character of the Dogs of War. Ruling from the most prominent Southern Realms city-state, Miragliano.

- Gashnag the Black, the Cursed Prince of the Border Princes, a somewhat-benevolent Strigoi who uses the Wind of Ulgu to disguise himself at day, but likely still uses the bestial strength his bloodline is known for at night to protect his territory.

- Asarnil the Dragonlord, an exiled High Elf of Caledor, and famed dragonrider. He's leader of his wandering mercenary band, possibly known as "The Dogs of War". His faction could be a semi-nomadic.

- ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Maneater, the original Maneater himself and once a central character of the Dogs of War roster/supplement. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ could be in the Ogre Kingdoms, but he's really not a leader of a tribe anymore. He's more mercenary then he is Ogre Tyrant at this point, and I think the game as a whole would benefit more if he joined the Southern Realms/Dogs of War.

Lords & Heroes

- Mercenary General - Sword/dagger or sword/pistol, maybe multiple variants lord.
Possible Mounts: Barded Warhorse, Pegasus and War Wagon

- Maneater Tyrant - Monstrous melee lord, it's a generic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
Possible Mounts: None or maybe a Rhinox?

- Merchant Prince - Ranged support lord. Think wealthy merchant who's able to hire his own private army to venture into mercenary contracts.
Possible Mounts: Barded Warhorse, War Wagon, and Paymasters Cart

- Paymaster - Support/morale hero the anchor of your army when you don't have a strong lord to lead or rally them, like a Necromancer for the Vampire Counts.
Possible Mounts: Paymasters Cart, Grand Paymasters Cart, and Extravagant Paymasters Cart

- Mercenary Captain - Melee hero, it's your generic melee hero. He's qualified as a "Mercenary Hero" and shares recruitment capacity with other "Mercenary Heroes". Which I'll get into at the end of the initial roster.
Possible Mounts: Barded Warhorse, Pegasus , and War Wagon

- Hireling Wizard - Spellcaster hero, it's your generic spellcaster hero. He's qualified as a "Hireling Wizard" and shares recruitment capacity with other "Hireling Wizards".
Possible Mounts: Warhorse and Barded Warhorse

- Bounty Hunter - Melee/ranged hybrid duelist hero. He's qualified as a "Mercenary Adventurer" and shares recruitment capacity with other "Mercenary Adventurers".
Possible Mounts: Barded Warhorse

Unit Roster

Melee Infantry
- Militia Spearmen - Light anti-large infantry.
- Militia Spearmen (Shields) - The previous unit + shields.
- Militia Swordsmen - Sword and shield light infantry.
- Militia Pikemen - The late inclusion of pikes to Total War Warhammer.
- Paymaster Bodyguard - Halberd wielding heavy infantry with the guardian trait.
- Republican Guard - Heavy pike infantry.

Ranged Infantry
- Militia Crossbowmen - ranged light infantry
- Pavise Crossbowmen - Shielded. Could be similar to Crane Gunners or Jezzails or could be like Pavise Crossbowmen from Medieval II.

Monstrous Infantry
- Maneaters
- Maneaters (Ironfists)
- Maneaters (Great Weapons)
- Maneaters (Ogre Pistols)
- Maneaters Leadbelchers

Melee Cavalry
- Merchant Lancers - Basic medium shock cavalry, lighter then Empire Knights.
- Knights of the Blazing Sun - They have a large chapter house is in Magritta, Estalia. Probably only recruitable from there.

Ranged Cavalry/Chariots
- Merchant Dragoons - Handgun light cavalry
- Merchant Pistoleros - Pistol light cavalry
- War Wagons - Handguns & crossbows unlike the Empire's repeater gun variants.
- War Wagons (Grenade Launchers) - Grenade launchers are fun, and they are mercenaries.
- Paymasters Cart - Single Entity support chariot similar to Corpse Cart.
- Grand Paymasters Cart - A shinier version.
- Extravagant Paymasters Cart - An even shinier version.

Note: War Wagons were not uncommon or used by a single nation during the Age of Pike & Shot. As Mercenaries are wanderers War Wagons make a lot of sense as they both assist in carrying supplies and act as a battlefield tool. We could possible get some "Formation" where the wagons can be used to create a barricade from which they shoot and other units can use as cover.

Artillery
- Galloper Guns - Light, horsedrawn cannons.
- Great Cannons - Equivalent to Empire Great Cannons, Dwarf Cannons, and Carronades.
- Bombards - Functioning as a shotgun; it fires grape shot.
- Mortars - Equivalent to Empire Mortars and Vampire Coast Mortars.

Tilean Units

Recruited from the provinces of Tilea and Sartosa, or recruited from a unique building only available to "Tilean" factions such as Borgio the Besieger's faction.

- Mercenary Duelists - Sword & buckler medium infantry.
- Mercenary Duelists (Dual Weapons) - Medium anti-infantry infantry.
- Merchant Crossbowmen - light pavise crossbowmen, higher quality then militia or Empire Crossbowmen.
- Merchant Pikeman - Medium pikemen somewhere between Milita Pikemen and Republican Guard.

Sartosan Units

Recruited from the province of Sartosa (and maybe The Galleon's Graveyard?). Also possibly accessible new units for Aranessa Saltspite.

- Sartosan Free Company - The current sword & pistol unit in-game.
- Sartosan Free Company (Dual Weapons) - The current dual wielding unit in-game.
- Sartosan Handgunners - Melee/ranged hybrid handgun pirates.
- Sartosan Handcannons - Shotgun pirates!

Border Prince Units

Recruited from the provinces of The Northern Border Princes, Southern Border Princes, and The Blood River Valley. Also recruitable from a unique building only available to "Border Prince" factions such as Gashnag the Black's faction.

- Borderlands Rangers - Vanguard longbowmen w/ stalk (?)
- Borderlands Horsemen - Vanguard medium cavalry
- Principality Guard - Heavy greataxe infantry, inspired by the Varangian Guard.
- Mercenary Giant - Another giant, but this one has a fancy hat and a mustache (for the ladies)!
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/8wZrLR

Estalian Units

Recruited from the provinces of Estalia and the Settler's Coast. Also recruitable from a unique building only available to "Estalian" factions such as Estalia...

- Tercio Swordsmen - Medium sword & shield infantry.
- Tercio Pikemen - Medium pikeman, maybe slightly better then Merchant Pikemen?
- Tercio Crossbowmen - Medium crossbowmen.
- Estalian Knights - Heavy melee shock cavalry; they're Knights.

Note; Tercio units would have something similar to the Ying/Yang mechanic benefiting from state buffs if near another Tercio unit of a different type.

Unique Mechanics - Mercenary Heroes/Hirling Wizards/Mercenary Adventurers

The Southern Realms/Dogs of War would have access to heroes from other rosters through unique dilemmas and each unique faction would have access to certain other race heroes in their general replenishing hero pool.

Mercenary Heroes would include: Mercenary Empire Captain, Maneater Bruiser, Outcast Dragonslayer, Exiled Noble, Merceanry Druhzina Captain (if we ever see them as a Kislevite Hero), Wandering Huskarl (if we ever see them as a Norscan Hero), and Exiled Master.

Hireling Wizards would include: Wandering Alchemist, Shrouded Sorcerer (possible Arabian Dark Wizard?), Exiled Mages, and a Maneater Butcher.

Mercenary Adventurers would include: Wandering Vampire, Wandering Dragon-Blooded Shugenan Monk (Melee-Spellcaster hybrid with Yin/Yang variants. if we ever see something similar for Cathay), Wandering Fimir Balefiend, Wandering Vampire Fleet Captain, Outcast Engineer, Maneater Hunter, Wandering Waystalker, and Wandering Witch Hunter.

Unique Mechanics - Mercenary Contracts/Mercenary Camps

The Southern Realms/Dogs of War would have access to a revamped contract system. How I envision this system working is something along the lines of this. Factions place contracts to take certain settlements, defeat a certain number of their enemy's armies, and do so for them; they get the settlements you take as part of the contract. You accept the contract, and have so long to complete. However, you're a famed mercenary you travel the globe doing this stuff and so you can take contracts from all over and by doing so you will dispatch a caravan style lord to the "hiring" faction's closest provincial capital. Once arrived this army becomes a mercenary camp. From where you can recruit a lord and transfer units.

These camps are where other factions can recruit DoW (RoR) units and other lesser mercenary units from your roster.

When playing as another faction though you can instead hire the Southern Realms/DoW to fight for you and can pay money to them, they send an army, set up a camp in your territory, but you get to "borrow army" without a Military Alliance, and can recruit your own units to said army... which will remain once it returns to them.

Unique Mechanic - The Ivory Road/Caravans

It feels weird that there are only ever caravans flowing one direction in the game. When there are in the lore caravans coming from, mostly, the Southern Realms into Cathay to trade for silk, spice, and ivory.

It's a Southern Realms caravan. It makes you money and items. Because these guys are all about making money and seeing the globe.

Unique Mechanics - Mercenaries

Just the possibility to recruit a small selection of units from other factions when you set up a mercenary camp in their territory. Example would be setting up a camp in Wood Elf Territory would allow you to recruit Glade Riders (Spears), Glade Riders (Hagbane Tips), Deepwood Scouts, and War Hawk Riders while setting up one Kislev would allow Kossars, Armoured Kossars, Armoured Kossars (Great Weapons), and Winged Lancers.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Maneater's faction "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥'s Maneaters" would inherently have access to Crushers, Ironblasters, and the Maneater Mercenary heroes.

Asarnil's faction "The Dogs of War (?)" would have access to a wide array of extra units from The Empire, High Elves, Wood Elves, and Kislev. As well as the Exiled Noble and Exiled Mage heroes.

Future DLCs to add onto this much later down the line could focus on Estalia, Mechanic Warmachines from Miragliano with Lucrezzia as a Legendary lord, or Araby. I love Dani Delgado's Estalian faction concept art and would love to see that included as it's own DLC.

Additional or Replacement Legendary lords are obviously Lucrezzia Belledona, Leitpold the Black, Marco Columbo, and Long Drong the Slayer Pirate (less likely) or some made up Pirate/Privateer Lord.

Some of the Inspiration:

https://www.artstation.com/danilagi7/albums/8050001

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2927296206

https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/305812/a-wholly-southern-realms-based-roster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re6ESk2RTNk&t=1s

Chubby is it you?

[SBA77]

But all joking aside looks good. Very plausible too, because it seems like for the roster you just stuck to the units they had in TT, which is mostly what CA has done. The only thing is you seem to have many too many units from too many different factions. If they do add DoW/Southern Realms they would most probably come as only a single race, so while they will probably still have units like pikes, paymasters and hireling wizards I doubt they'll have so many unique units for their subfactions like that. I suppose they could always use the Estalian, Tillean and Sartosan troops as higher tier units to fill out the roster, but they could also make normal unit versions of the numerous DoW Regiments of Renown for that as well like they did with the Gryphon Legion for Kislev.

Also another idea I've seen thrown around for Southern Realms/DoW is the inclusion of units from the minor fluff factions (e.g. Araby) in their roster.

[[L9] Rhinopotamus]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

Originally posted by L9 Rhinopotamus:

Golg might end up in the Ogre Kingdoms, maybe, but I wouldn't say gauranteed. Ogres have enough lore to generate 4+ Legendary Lords without him. Also he doesn't appear in the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms Army Book... he appears in their 8th Edition Army book, 8th Edition didn't have DoW, but even his 8th Edition text says he's commonly found amongst the Dogs of War.

Gashnag has gained a lot of popularity with the community even showing up on the radar of most of the major Total War/Warhammer Youtubers following Cataph's original Southern Realms mod. If Cylostra, Aranessa, and Helman Ghorst can make in the game why can't he?

Asarnil is the most famous Dogs of War character after Borgio and Golg... He's almost certainly gonna be a Legendary Lord. Not a single entity unit, not a Legendary Hero, likely a Legendary Lord. The purpose of Dogs of War is to not be all humans. If it's all humans it's just another Empire, Kislev, and Bretonnia. Nothing new and that's not what Southern Realms or Dogs of War is about; it's a bunch of misfits, mercenaries, and misfit mercenaries. The idea that a Human, a Strigoi, an Elf, and an Ogre walk into a bar...

All of these characters do something unique for the race. Borgio is a mercenary, but he rules from Miragliano and he's the human-focused lore. He's a melee powerhouse, but he's not a monstrous character and he doesn't have a monstrous mount. Golg is a melee/ranged hybrid monstrous character with a focus on ogre units, and likely immediately going after the people who just hired him if they are weak. Gashnag is a monstrous spellcaster who's just got a uniquely cool story and the only other "big" Border Prince character is Leitpold the Black... who's just a weaker version of Borgio. Asarnil is the wandering mercenary duelist with a dragon... need I say more?

Lucrezzia is fine and cool, but she's not as unique as the others, and fanconcepts of Estalia, much like many of the concepts for Khuresh, are just down right awesome and deserve their own dedicated part of a DLC.

*Snip*

I'm not arguing, this is my ideal theorcrafted roster, just because something was one way in 8th doesnt mean it will be that way in game. Cylostra was not in 8th. Zoats were not in 8th. Fmir were not in 8th. There is an endless list.

If you wanna have a discussion give me a lore explanation as to why Golg would make more sense as an Ogre Kingdoms lord then a Dogs of War lord, other then he is an Ogre. If that's the case Aranessa should be in the Norscan Roster as she's a Norscan.

[brownacs]

No Morgan Bernhardt? Boo...

[A.Pot]

Originally posted by L9 Rhinopotamus:

I'm not arguing, this is my ideal theorcrafted roster, just because something was one way in 8th doesnt mean it will be that way in game. Cylostra was not in 8th. Zoats were not in 8th. Fmir were not in 8th. There is an endless list.

If you wanna have a discussion give me a lore explanation as to why Golg would make more sense as an Ogre Kingdoms lord then a Dogs of War lord, other then he is an Ogre. If that's the case Aranessa should be in the Norscan Roster as she's a Norscan.

Cylostra and Aranessa made sense to be in Vampire Coast because the former is an original character who fills the mage archetype while the latter more or less has that pirate theme which is the whole point of the faction.

Golg makes sense as an Ogre Kingdoms characters as he literally in the army book. Go read it instead of relying on youtubers.

Zoats and Fimir are in 8th Edition as of Monstrous Arcanum. Seriously, do even play the tabletop or have at least bothered to read the actual books?

[[L9] Rhinopotamus]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

Originally posted by L9 Rhinopotamus:

I'm not arguing, this is my ideal theorcrafted roster, just because something was one way in 8th doesnt mean it will be that way in game. Cylostra was not in 8th. Zoats were not in 8th. Fmir were not in 8th. There is an endless list.

If you wanna have a discussion give me a lore explanation as to why Golg would make more sense as an Ogre Kingdoms lord then a Dogs of War lord, other then he is an Ogre. If that's the case Aranessa should be in the Norscan Roster as she's a Norscan.

Cylostra and Aranessa made sense to be in Vampire Coast because the former is an original character who fills the mage archetype while the latter more or less has that pirate theme which is the whole point of the faction.

Golg makes sense as an Ogre Kingdoms characters as he literally in the army book. Go read it instead of relying on youtubers.

Zoats and Fimir are in 8th Edition as of Monstrous Arcanum. Seriously, do even play the tabletop or have at least bothered to read the actual books?

Golg isn't in the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms book like you originally said. I do not ever remember Zoats or Fimir being in the 8th Edition version of Monstrous Arcanum. In fact I know Zoats aren't they haven't appeared since... 3rd or 4th Edition, and only have a reference of text in Storm of Chaos.

So now you're just being disingenuous and making empty pleas to the source; acting as if you're some "true believer" and know the lore and table top better then others when you've repeatedly misaligned what's in the source material. You're not even accurate and ignore the bigger picture. Even in the 8th Edition book what does it say about Golg? He's commonly found among the Dogs of War. What supplements was he originally apart of? The Dogs of War Supplements.

Does he lead an Ogre Tribe or a Mercenary Band? So is an Ogre Kingdom or a Dogs of War Character?

Just because he was thrown into one book with the rest of his race, as GW did not appear keen to do a DoW supplement in 8th Edition does not mean that Golg is guaranteed to be in their roster. Could he be? Yes. Might he be? Maybe, probably, who knows.

However, acting like you're some arbiter on the lore and source material as you have repeatedly cited incorrect information makes you look bad. Just leave.

Edit: Fimir Warriors, not Balefiends or Zoats, appear in the 8th Edition version of Monstrous Arcanum. You've still failed to provide a logical lore-based argument as to why Golg is so much more likely to be an Ogre Kingdoms character other then, "8th Ed says so!" and "He is Ogre, put with Ogres!" Both of which are aren't solid arguments for the case because what are you gonna do if Shar'tor the Executioner gets added for the Chorfs like a lot of people believe he will and want him to be? Have an stoke? He wasn't 8th Edition, probably intended to be, but he wasn't.

[A.Pot]

Originally posted by L9 Rhinopotamus:

Golg isn't in the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms book like you originally said. I do not ever remember Zoats or Fimir being in the 8th Edition version of Monstrous Arcanum. In fact I know Zoats aren't they haven't appeared since... 3rd or 4th Edition, and only have a reference of text in Storm of Chaos.

So now you're just being disingenuous and making empty pleas to the source; acting as if you're some "true believer" and know the lore and table top better then others when you've repeatedly misaligned what's in the source material. You're not even accurate and ignore the bigger picture. Even in the 8th Edition book what does it say about Golg? He's commonly found among the Dogs of War. What supplements was he originally apart of? The Dogs of War Supplements.

Does he lead an Ogre Tribe or a Mercenary Band? So is an Ogre Kingdom or a Dogs of War Character?

Just because he was thrown into one book with the rest of his race, as GW did not appear keen to do a DoW supplement in 8th Edition does not mean that Golg is guaranteed to be in their roster. Could he be? Yes. Might he be? Maybe, probably, who knows.

However, acting like you're some arbiter on the lore and source material as you have repeatedly cited incorrect information makes you look bad. Just leave.

Edit: Fimir Warriors, not Balefiends or Zoats, appear in the 8th Edition version of Monstrous Arcanum. You've still failed to provide a logical lore-based argument as to why Golg is so much more likely to be an Ogre Kingdoms character other then, "8th Ed says so!" and "He is Ogre, put with Ogres!" Both of which are aren't solid arguments for the case because what are you gonna do if Shar'tor the Executioner gets added for the Chorfs like a lot of people believe he will and want him to be? Have an stoke? He wasn't 8th Edition, probably intended to be, but he wasn't.

The absolute irony of you claiming that I am being disingenuous when you clearly have never even read those books yourself. 8th Edition which is what Total War Warhammer follows has ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ as a named character for the Ogre Kingoms.

In Monstrous Arcanum, Fimir pop up on page page 60 where Zoats are at the bottom of the A Panoply of Monsters section of page 112 but the actual rules for them are in Storms of Magic page 135 which Monstrous Arcanum is part of.

If you are gonna bother to argue about Warhammer lore, at least bother to read up on it, otherwise it makes you look high uneducated on the matter.

[[L9] Rhinopotamus]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

Originally posted by L9 Rhinopotamus:

Golg isn't in the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms book like you originally said. I do not ever remember Zoats or Fimir being in the 8th Edition version of Monstrous Arcanum. In fact I know Zoats aren't they haven't appeared since... 3rd or 4th Edition, and only have a reference of text in Storm of Chaos.

So now you're just being disingenuous and making empty pleas to the source; acting as if you're some "true believer" and know the lore and table top better then others when you've repeatedly misaligned what's in the source material. You're not even accurate and ignore the bigger picture. Even in the 8th Edition book what does it say about Golg? He's commonly found among the Dogs of War. What supplements was he originally apart of? The Dogs of War Supplements.

Does he lead an Ogre Tribe or a Mercenary Band? So is an Ogre Kingdom or a Dogs of War Character?

Just because he was thrown into one book with the rest of his race, as GW did not appear keen to do a DoW supplement in 8th Edition does not mean that Golg is guaranteed to be in their roster. Could he be? Yes. Might he be? Maybe, probably, who knows.

However, acting like you're some arbiter on the lore and source material as you have repeatedly cited incorrect information makes you look bad. Just leave.

Edit: Fimir Warriors, not Balefiends or Zoats, appear in the 8th Edition version of Monstrous Arcanum. You've still failed to provide a logical lore-based argument as to why Golg is so much more likely to be an Ogre Kingdoms character other then, "8th Ed says so!" and "He is Ogre, put with Ogres!" Both of which are aren't solid arguments for the case because what are you gonna do if Shar'tor the Executioner gets added for the Chorfs like a lot of people believe he will and want him to be? Have an stoke? He wasn't 8th Edition, probably intended to be, but he wasn't.

*snip*

They have a mention in Storm of Chaos, not rules, and again I don’t remember seeing any mention of them in the panoply of monsters; unless you want to post a screenshot or the pdf. I’ve repeatedly cited the lore you bafoon. What does the lore say about Golg? You continually ignore it.

Keep screaming. You totally look like you know what you’re talking about. “♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is in the Ogres sixth edition book!” “Zoats we’re playable in 8th edition!”

This game has not strictly followed 8th Ediiton though. Continue having your stroke guy, it’s fun to watch.

[A.Pot]

Originally posted by L9 Rhinopotamus:

They have a mention in Storm of Chaos, not rules, and again I don’t remember seeing any mention of them in the panoply of monsters; unless you want to post a screenshot or the pdf. I’ve repeatedly cited the lore you bafoon. What does the lore say about Golg? You continually ignore it.

Keep screaming. You totally look like you know what you’re talking about. “♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is in the Ogres sixth edition book!” “Zoats we’re playable in 8th edition!”

This game has not strictly followed 8th Ediiton though. Continue having your stroke guy, it’s fun to watch.

Storm of Chaos is a completely separate material compared to Storm of Magic you absolute dunce. And I have cited the official source material such as the 6th and 8th edition where again, he is as much an Ogre Kingdoms character as Greasus and Skrag.

https://imgur.com/a/O2FYk8Y

https://imgur.com/a/JqEmq2U

If you clearly have not bothered or will not bother to check any of the actual source material such as the Army Books if it means disproving you then that is on you for being so pig-headed.

[[L9] Rhinopotamus]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

Originally posted by L9 Rhinopotamus:

They have a mention in Storm of Chaos, not rules, and again I don’t remember seeing any mention of them in the panoply of monsters; unless you want to post a screenshot or the pdf. I’ve repeatedly cited the lore you bafoon. What does the lore say about Golg? You continually ignore it.

Keep screaming. You totally look like you know what you’re talking about. “♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is in the Ogres sixth edition book!” “Zoats we’re playable in 8th edition!”

This game has not strictly followed 8th Ediiton though. Continue having your stroke guy, it’s fun to watch.

Storm of Chaos is a completely separate material compared to Storm of Magic you absolute dunce. And I have cited the official source material such as the 6th and 8th edition where again, he is as much an Ogre Kingdoms character as Greasus and Skrag.

https://imgur.com/a/O2FYk8Y

If you clearly have not bothered or will not bother to check any of the actual source material such as the Army Books if it means disproving you then that is on you for being so pig-headed.

Whoops I mispoke between Magic and Chaos; sue me. No one has argued he's not in the 8th Edition Ogre Kingdoms book guy. Learn how to talk to people or stay in your mother's basement. This isn't a CoD game lobby or League of Legends, and I damn well know you don't to talk to people like that in real life.

You turned this whole thread into an argument because you just can't see other people's perspective and you're dead set on. "I will be right! I can't be wrong! It must be my way!"

He's not been released yet guy, you don't know any of that, nothing is certain this was all in good fun and you're childish nature ruined it. I repeatedly stated he could go to the Ogre Kingdoms, but I'd like him here for X, Y, Z reaons; including his well established lore and the fact that he spent multiple editions as a DoW Character. You're dead set on, "NO! THAT WRONG OPINION! HE OGRE!. He in 8th Ed book. Brain compute no further." Good for you want a cookie? God I wish someone would have raised you better.

[A.Pot]

Originally posted by L9 Rhinopotamus:

Whoops I mispoke between Magic and Chaos; sue me. No one has argued he's not in the 8th Edition Ogre Kingdoms book guy. Learn how to talk to people or stay in your mother's basement. This isn't a CoD game lobby or League of Legends, and I damn well know you don't to talk to people like that in real life.

You turned this whole thread into an argument because you just can't see other people's perspective and you're dead set on. "I will be right! I can't be wrong! It must be my way!"

He's not been released yet guy, you don't know any of that, nothing is certain this was all in good fun and you're childish nature ruined it. I repeatedly stated he could go to the Ogre Kingdoms, but I'd like him here for X, Y, Z reaons; including his well established lore and the fact that he spent multiple editions as a DoW Character. You're dead set on "He Ogre. He in 8th Ed book. Brain compute no further." Good for you want a cookie? God I wish someone would have raised you better.

You do realize that you are the first one here to go out calling names and when I actually show you proof that characters like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is indeed an Ogre Kingdoms character you just double down. You really might want to take a good look at a mirror before you start calling people childish when you are the one throwing a tantrum and being willfully obtuse.

Edit: by the way, I added below the first link a second one for the Storms of Magic and Monstrous Arcanum which has the rules for Zoats and Fimir

[[L9] Rhinopotamus]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

You do realize that you are the first one here to go out calling names and when I actually show you proof that characters like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is indeed an Ogre Kingdoms character you just double down. You really might want to take a good look at a mirror before you start calling people childish when you are the one throwing a tantrum and being willfully obtuse.

Dude, that's a flat out lie and you know it. You started this by acting high and mighty and questioning me on the lore just for believing based on the lore that Golg should be in the DoW Roster. "Have you ever read (Implying I haven't when my entire opinion on the subject is based on having read Golg's lore, and implying your better just by virtue of having read every book)..." You act condescending you're gonna be treated accordingly. Keep going though whatever gets your rocks off. I was chill calmly explained my side and you continued with, "No. That's wrong, he's 8th Edition! Can only be 8th Edition."

I admitted I was wrong about Fimir and yeah Zoats do appear in Storm of Magic, I didn't know that because that's one book I never read and everything else I've ever read they hadn't been seen since 3rd Edition. However, you never walked back your statement about ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ being in the 6th Ed Ogre Kingdoms book? Yet here you are attempting to project your own tantrum on me. I'm not the one upset here bud. I just wanted to share my ideal SR/DoW Roster and you just can't have anything your brain doesn't like floating around.

Keep it up bud. I'll be enjoying my coffee and my Cathay campaign watching you cry your heart out about someone else wanting Golg in the DoW Roster because that's where they think he would fit best as a mercenary.