Cathay's Longma Riders are objectively terrible units

[OenKrad]

If they were a Tier 3 unit and half the cost, it would not be that big of a deal. But this is an incredibly expensive unit and can only be recruited at Tier 5.

Their problems:

Low hp
Mediocre stats
No specialty of any kind
Low armor piercing
No special tech to make them worth recruiting
Recruited at Tier 5 despite their mediocrity
High recruit times

They have vanilla animations so nothing makes up for their stats or helps them perform in an "anti-infantry" way despite being labeled as anti-infantry. They do not even have anti-infantry as a stat on their weapon strength. Their cost versus performance is so out of balance. This becomes exceptionally clear when you compare the cost and value of it versus other units of comparable value and type, across various races.

There is no reason to take them over Jade Lancers, which are a fraction of the cost and are arguably better performers. Jade Lancers can also be recruited at Tier 3 and have a significant upgrade if used in the campaign, which is devastating flanker. Longma Riders also have no better of a time getting in and out of units due to their poor mass, causing models to get stuck and killed off easily.

While Longma Riders are aesthetically interesting, they have no practical use for existing. They really need something other than "I can fly" to justify their cost, tier placement, and recruit time. Revamping this unit to bring something unique to Cathay's roster would be wonderful.

[A.Pot]

I disagree. Longma Riders like the rest of Cathay's roster has their place which often comes down to how you the player utilizes them. Against the armies of Chaos they can provide much needed protection from enemy air units such as Furies and Harpies. Being Flying Cavalry they can be used much more effectively to circle around the enemy and hit artillery pieces or shut down ranged units or engage in hammer and anvil or go over the walls of enemy settlements.

They also do have upgrades from both the tech tree and the Lord skills so you can improve upon them. But most importantly like the rest of Cathay's army they benefit the most from when you the player allow them to harmonize with ranged units. Finding the right synergy of what units to pair them and dropping spells when it is needed really makes the difference.

[SBA77]

They are also cursed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIMwLxglN3E

[A.Pot]

Originally posted by SBA77:

They are also cursed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIMwLxglN3E

Meh, not really as they are actual creatures of Chinese Myths just like the Pegasus is for the Greeks. But Tariffs jokes are usually ♥♥♥♥ anyway.

[SBA77]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

Originally posted by SBA77:

They are also cursed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIMwLxglN3E

Meh, not really as they are actual creatures of Chinese Myths just like the Pegasus is for the Greeks. But Tariffs jokes are usually ♥♥♥♥ anyway.

Well I suppose you can't beat a dragon-horse, plus I'm pretty sure the ones from mythology look better anyway.

[dulany67]

They aren't the most useful of units, but they are the most mobile unit in Cathay's roster and have situational uses.

[The Haney]

I don't disagree on any points made, but this is just one of quite a few units with misleading tags and/or bad performance for their cost/tier.

Personally I don't see a great need for them as your ground-based cavalry is generally sufficient to deal with enemy artillery. That being said, they do look awesome. I personally wouldn't mind drastically lowering their power, cutting their cost way down, and moving them to tier 3. Basically super beefy harpies rather than lackluster doomknights / overpriced pegasussies.

[Darklordnj]

The big reason for their price/tier is that they're far outside of Cathay's typical static line, with their ability to fly and high mobility, they provide coverage to areas that a typical Cathay army would be weak in. It's not like Cathay is alone in this, you'll see the same thing with other factions where a unit that provides coverage to a roster's typical weakness is much higher value than they should be worth.

[jonoliveira12]

They are decent for sniping Artillery and flying Caster Lords and Heroes.

Longma riders are NOT supposed to be a power projection unit. Cathay is dpendent on Harmony bonuses, so you have to get a slow moving wall of troops, so that Cavalry is only there to make sure they do not get shot to pieces by things they cannot realistically fight back against.

[dulany67]

Honestly, the most use I got out of them was the final stage against Belakor in the RoC. The battlefield was packed, but longma could fly above the mass of units and reach threats quickly.

[SpeaksTooFast]

I got good use out of 2 of them in the Iron Dragon's army during the RoC campagin. One had the banner for magical attacks and the other one had the banner for increased AP damage. They were good for keeping my balloons out of combat and occasional rear charging something or helping out the Dragon if he was outnumbered or I wanted to quickly snipe another flying character.

They filled their role well but I would not want more than 2 of them in that army and I would not accuse them of being cost effective.

Edit: also great for taking out ranged units in siege battles but I had to babysit them as the towers hit them hard and I didn't have reliable healing in my main army.

[Fryskar]

Imagine longma beeing only ~30 more expensive than furies, what do you want them to lose to compensate? Slashing all/most stats by 30-40%?

[SarmatII]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

I disagree. Longma Riders like the rest of Cathay's roster has their place which often comes down to how you the player utilizes them. Against the armies of Chaos they can provide much needed protection from enemy air units such as Furies and Harpies. Being Flying Cavalry they can be used much more effectively to circle around the enemy and hit artillery pieces or shut down ranged units or engage in hammer and anvil or go over the walls of enemy settlements.

Cathay has no issues with flying units. It's bows, crossbow, guns can clear the skies easily.

Crane gunners rip air units with clear line of sight.

The only real role of Longma is against dangerous enemy artillery where Cathay lack range to counter well.

They can bypass enemy ground forces, and get on top of artillery better than other options.

[A.Pot]

Originally posted by PhoBoChai:

Cathay has no issues with flying units. It's bows, crossbow, guns can clear the skies easily.

Crane gunners rip air units with clear line of sight.

The only real role of Longma is against dangerous enemy artillery where Cathay lack range to counter well.

They can bypass enemy ground forces, and get on top of artillery better than other options.

When it comes to fighting enemy air units sure you can shoot at them but Longmas can directly engage and intercept enemy air units in the sky so they don't get close to your ranged troops. If you also happen to bring Sky Junks or Sky Laterns they can mean the difference between life and death for the crews aboard as they can directly protect those balloons.

I heavily disagree with only being good vs enemy artillery part as they can still be great for doing those rear / flanking charges for hammer and anvil or as I mentioned being able to go after regular ranged units which they can do better compared to Jade Lancers due to being in the air.

One of their main strengths I would say is how versatile they can be in responding to different threats from the air or ground or during sieges or regular land battles.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by PhoBoChai:

Originally posted by A.Pot:

I disagree. Longma Riders like the rest of Cathay's roster has their place which often comes down to how you the player utilizes them. Against the armies of Chaos they can provide much needed protection from enemy air units such as Furies and Harpies. Being Flying Cavalry they can be used much more effectively to circle around the enemy and hit artillery pieces or shut down ranged units or engage in hammer and anvil or go over the walls of enemy settlements.

Cathay has no issues with flying units. It's bows, crossbow, guns can clear the skies easily.

Crane gunners rip air units with clear line of sight.

The only real role of Longma is against dangerous enemy artillery where Cathay lack range to counter well.

They can bypass enemy ground forces, and get on top of artillery better than other options.

Flying Casters, with vortex spells, will rip through your tight lines (only way to keep Harmony, otherwise you are fighting at a disadvantage), long before Crossbows and Crane Guns can bring them down.
You have to use Longma, or a Dragon, to stop that, and you only get one Dragon per faction, 2 at most if you confederate.

[SpeaksTooFast]

Originally posted by A.Pot:

One of their main strengths I would say is how versatile they can be in responding to different threats from the air or ground or during sieges or regular land battles.

Going to +1 this, they are a decent, if expensive, Jack of all Trades unit. If you are looking for one specific role chances are Cathay has another unit to do it better and or cheaper.

Cathay does have some great ranged units but at least for me, on the current patch, ranged targeting is unreliable. I'm playing woodelves right now and cannot wait till I can start recruiting treemen so I do not have to worry so much about babysitting my archers while they decide weather or not they want to shoot.