how do you deal with dwarf slayers in end game crisis / overall

[cråck]

imo everythin is in the title

i have a lot of truble menaging ia slayers in my battles they usually end wiping 200-250 dudes before they finally get away

currently playing as vampires in the last battle i tried send the fantoms ( considering their hight phys res ) but the both units still got wiped

even as ungrim your slayers will wipe vs the miners but in the hands of legendary ia they become a real pain in the ass in my battles, so considering it is now 2 or 3 campaigns i have truble to deal with these mf i would love some suggestions from you guys

in advance ty

[Aleera]

Don't use ethereal unit's. Their AP etc is wasted, and their lack of real stats still means they take quite alot of damage.

Against Slayers, your strongest unit as the Vampire counts are regular grave guard. And depending on faction. Zombies are amazing. Zombies are the last unit they want to fight and will eventually lose, or take way to much damage trying to cut through the hp pool.

[SomeGuy1]

So, slayers are unbreakable and high melee damage. Normally the strategy would be to avoid engaging them in melee and having ranged units kill them... but you're Vampire Counts right? That isn't an option. So... if you have to engage them with something, have it be easily replacable trash with a Mortis Engine nearby to do the actual killing. Let them kill the ♥♥♥♥ out of some crappy zombies... and then raise more zombies.
or, better yet, some summons.

[cråck]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Don't use ethereal unit's. Their AP etc is wasted, and their lack of real stats still means they take quite alot of damage.

Against Slayers, your strongest unit as the Vampire counts are regular grave guard. And depending on faction. Zombies are amazing. Zombies are the last unit they want to fight and will eventually lose, or take way to much damage trying to cut through the hp pool.

Originally posted by SomeGuy1:

So, slayers are unbreakable and high melee damage. Normally the strategy would be to avoid engaging them in melee and having ranged units kill them... but you're Vampire Counts right? That isn't an option. So... if you have to engage them with something, have it be easily replacable trash with a Mortis Engine nearby to do the actual killing. Let them kill the ♥♥♥♥ out of some crappy zombies... and then raise more zombies.
or, better yet, some summons.

actually it's what i do i summon zombies nearby and send the mortis nearby

the mortis is ( uually ) heavly focused by any range units (siege inculded ) so the tricky part is to get the mortis in the right spot

Kimler has no issues with any dwarf comp and his army is mainly made with zombies, but all his setup allows him to actually make zombies way more powerfull then any other unit on the map

it's not the case of the other lords, and overall i think zombies in these armies will be way to slow to even aproach the slayers

i also realised that the only unit able to " tank " the slayers are the regular grave guards but i dont even know why, is it their armor ?
even them, they end losing a face to face
in witch case as you said zombies are way better and cost efficient
also in some of the battles i send grave horror into the face of the slayers and despite them being "large" suposedly even more vulnerable to the slayers they actually came ahead; and once again i don't understand why
i supose their attack is reaching multiple slayers at a time and considering their spacing the regular infantry has truble reaching them

[Aleera]

Originally posted by cråck:

i also realised that the only unit able to " tank " the slayers are the regular grave guards but i dont even know why, is it their armor ?
even them, they end losing a face to face
in witch case as you said zombies are way better and cost efficient
also in some of the battles i send grave horror into the face of the slayers and despite them being "large" suposedly even more vulnerable to the slayers they actually came ahead; and once again i don't understand why
i supose their attack is reaching multiple slayers at a time and considering their spacing the regular infantry has truble reaching them

Odd, because Grave guard should win from slayers. Maybe not giant slayers. But from regular slayers, they should win handsdown. Are you supporting your front line with a corpsecart for healing? Invested into the research / red tree skill?
Are the Grave guard experienced, or just lvl "1".
Because with r9, the basic red skill tree and a corpse cart nearby, they gain upto . ehm +22 on their m/D

[Sad Yak]

What are you on about for love's sake, slayers are probably one of weakest units ai can('t) use.

Just blob them in cheap chaff and watch them get wittled away, use spells and summons etc

[A.Pot]

Slayers being Anti-Large should be a huge clue on how to deal with them. Throw tons of Skeletons, Zombies and other infantry units or use the regular Grave Guard with shields if you can afford it. Don't bother using Greatsword Grave Guards or Ghosts whose armor piercing would be way better suited against the rest of the Dwarf army.

Avoid at all costs sending your monsters and cavalry against them unless you are certain that they can destroy the Slayers while suffering only minimal losses.

If you have invested Blood Kisses into the Von Carstein lineage. Crossbow Sylvanian Levy will help a lot in dealing with Slayers once they are tied up in melee

[Pervy]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Originally posted by cråck:

i also realised that the only unit able to " tank " the slayers are the regular grave guards but i dont even know why, is it their armor ?
even them, they end losing a face to face
in witch case as you said zombies are way better and cost efficient
also in some of the battles i send grave horror into the face of the slayers and despite them being "large" suposedly even more vulnerable to the slayers they actually came ahead; and once again i don't understand why
i supose their attack is reaching multiple slayers at a time and considering their spacing the regular infantry has truble reaching them

Odd, because Grave guard should win from slayers. Maybe not giant slayers. But from regular slayers, they should win handsdown. Are you supporting your front line with a corpsecart for healing? Invested into the research / red tree skill?
Are the Grave guard experienced, or just lvl "1".
Because with r9, the basic red skill tree and a corpse cart nearby, they gain upto . ehm +22 on their m/D

Very hard battle difficulty gives bonus to the AI.

[Amereth]

Send Vlad.
Grab Popcorn.
Watch a movie on another screen.
Come back once the movie is done.
Cast Pit of shade because the fight is still going on...
Profit.

[Commisar Jon Fuklaw]

Any armored infantry with decent melee skill will grind slayers down, as they lack armor and numbers. Giant slayers or slayers led by Ungrim are another story, requiring more effort to kill, but the principle remains the same. If you are playing VC, the idea is to not send trash at high tier infantry unless you have a LOT of trash.

[Aleera]

Originally posted by LostLogicUnit:

Very hard battle difficulty gives bonus to the AI.

. . . . your point being?
Very hard adds +10% to certain stats for the AI. Which is a bandaid because the AI does not spec their lords properly. If the AI didn't invest into Grimnir's Heirs, your red tree line buff will give more then what the AI gets from playing on very hard. A slayer on very hard will have +4 m/A and +3 m/D. Grave guard with 3 points into their relevant red tree (not r7) will have +8/8.

The only thing that actually causes the AI unit's to be harder to beat, is the +10 leadership.
Which means absolutely nothing when you're talking with slayers. Slayers are unbreakable. They will fight even after army losses have kicked in. You have to kill every last model before you can end the combat. So +10 leadership on infinite leadership in this situation means exactly that. Nothing.

[Prisoner 76561197992841073]

just fkin kill em man how hard can it be

[cråck]

Originally posted by Rianne:

Originally posted by cråck:

i also realised that the only unit able to " tank " the slayers are the regular grave guards but i dont even know why, is it their armor ?
even them, they end losing a face to face
in witch case as you said zombies are way better and cost efficient
also in some of the battles i send grave horror into the face of the slayers and despite them being "large" suposedly even more vulnerable to the slayers they actually came ahead; and once again i don't understand why
i supose their attack is reaching multiple slayers at a time and considering their spacing the regular infantry has truble reaching them

Odd, because Grave guard should win from slayers. Maybe not giant slayers. But from regular slayers, they should win handsdown. Are you supporting your front line with a corpsecart for healing? Invested into the research / red tree skill?
Are the Grave guard experienced, or just lvl "1".
Because with r9, the basic red skill tree and a corpse cart nearby, they gain upto . ehm +22 on their m/D

it's most likely the dwarfs buffs on slayers that give them advantage idk, as far as i seen all their gyro are wanguard witch is on the last techs so i can assume they also have some cheats for techs on slayers ( the crisis started around turn 30-40)

i do usually have a chariot near my guys so the buff is usually applied, i have 3 points in red skill tree, and in term of research just skelettons and zombies are buffed, it's hard to figure out exacly the exp of my guards but no they are not lvl 1 but i daubt any of them is lvl 9
as the ia is using slayers to flanc i tend send the less experienced unit or the most damaged one in the center with some armor piercing units and a necromancer on a cart ( so that he can easly spam spells on all sides )

on a skilled lord a lvl 7 guard has
62 leadership
45 attack
51mdef
44 ws with 13 armor piering and 8 inf bonus

the armies from crisis own lvl 5+ guys and the regular slayer stats are :
leadership infinite
48 attack
52 def
55 weapon streght with 18 armor piericing and 24 bonus to large
giant slayers
59 atk- 54 mdef -57 (40 armor piercing and 30 anti large )

all of them also have 15 armor (probably from tech)
and dont forget guards are using magical attacks while dwarfs are all 35% spell immune, maybe that also makes the difference

[Jukelo]

Blob them, shoot & nuke with magic.