Tzeentch and Questing Knights lore

[Seven Samurott]

Kind of a misleading title but I didn't want to make two threads

How come lore wise Tzeentch isn't the strongest Chaos God? Like I get lots of war would make Khorne strong but Tzeentch is literally magic and the essence of Chaos itself. Not to mention to a degree he feeds off of the change other Chaos Gods enact. Always seemed weird to me he was number 2.

Shouldn't Questing Knights be the Bretonnian foot knights? I mean they are basically the Bretonnian version of Slayers. What better way to prove your worth in battle and in the eyes of the Lady than to forgo the knightly tradition of mounted warfare? Only using your steeds for travel and slaying enemies through strength of arms, armor, and faith. Always thought the Foot Squires felt out of place anyway, seems like a more flavorful compromise.

[Ashardalon]

first of all
none of the chaos gods are the strongest
except slaanesh is the weakest but its young
but the reason tzeentch isnt the strongest is
-he once tried winning the game with timetravel and he got properly beat up by the other3 for cheating
-khorne is the easiest to manipulate god, so why draw attention when your the god of fate and plans
-tzeentch doesnt want to win, winning means there is no game so winning is the only way he can lose

and no, questing knights are questing mounted
there is no honor is losing your horse
they are also not trying to die like slayers they are trying to win and prove themself worthy to the lady
they do slay their enemys trough strength of arms armor and faith, also skill
but all of those are by tradition for brettonian knights
mounted
but yes, foot squires are out of place, they shouldnt be in the game

[Zeek]

Originally posted by Seven Samurott:

Kind of a misleading title but I didn't want to make two threads

How come lore wise Tzeentch isn't the strongest Chaos God? Like I get lots of war would make Khorne strong but Tzeentch is literally magic and the essence of Chaos itself. Not to mention to a degree he feeds off of the change other Chaos Gods enact. Always seemed weird to me he was number 2.

Tzeentch is arguably the strongest god.

In lore, at one time he was on the cusp of winning the great game, but then sabotaged himself to fail because if he wins, he wouldn't have anymore fun being the ultimate memester.

He's probably the most OP god but chooses not to take full advantages of it, because that's just not as fun for him. He likes the endless plotting and scheming, even if it goes against his best interests.

Originally posted by Seven Samurott:

Shouldn't Questing Knights be the Bretonnian foot knights? I mean they are basically the Bretonnian version of Slayers. What better way to prove your worth in battle and in the eyes of the Lady than to forgo the knightly tradition of mounted warfare? Only using your steeds for travel and slaying enemies through strength of arms, armor, and faith. Always thought the Foot Squires felt out of place anyway, seems like a more flavorful compromise.

Not nessesary. They are full fledged knights after all. If anything I think you should be able to dismount the knights in combat like in the historical games.

[cb4n28]

It really depends on your conception of the Chaos Gods. Which, depending on what lore source you are going to, you can't really do. At the end of the day, they are beings beyond human capacity to understand fight for dominance in a reality beyond mortal comprehension. Petty questions like "who is strongest?" probably don't really apply, at least not the way we understand it.

Ultimately they are less gods in the sense of Zeus sitting in Olympus wanting hook up with pretty girls or Thor getting mad and smashing some Jotun with his hammer and more gods like unfathomable Lovecraftian horrors whose existence we can't really understand.

While they might manifest in more comprehensible forms; in the form of demons or the like; it would be a mistake to assume an understanding of those manifestations means you understand the god as a whole. Stories and legends that state "Tzeentch did this" or "Slaanesh wants that" are primarily just attempts to make the unfathomable easier to understand.

The question of which Chaos God is stronger is almost like asking "What's stronger? Hunger or Lightning?" Any potential answer to that a person could understand would depend entirely on the context of in which you are asking the questions.

ETA: as to your second question, I don't know what to tell you, Bretonnia Knights ride horses.

[Seven Samurott]

I know Questing Knights aren't trying to die it just always made sense that they'd fight on foot in order to prove themselves. I like the idea of them relinquishing their steeds for a travelling horse. Fighting on foot would be character building for them.

They fight on the level of a common man to appreciate what they lose in pursuing their vow and it teaches humility, one of the chivalrous virtues. It would be interesting flavor if they form a deep bond with their travelling horse and retire it to the stables to live out the rest of its days in peace after they finish their quest.

[ssumbra]

Originally posted by Seven Samurott:

I know Questing Knights aren't trying to die it just always made sense that they'd fight on foot in order to prove themselves. I like the idea of them relinquishing their steeds for a travelling horse. Fighting on foot would be character building for them.

They fight on the level of a common man to appreciate what they lose in pursuing their vow and it teaches humility, one of the chivalrous virtues. It would be interesting flavor if they form a deep bond with their travelling horse and retire it to the stables to live out the rest of its days in peace after they finish their quest.

Theres a problem with that. Not having a horse means you are basically a peasent, which are borderline on the level of cattle for bretonnian nobles. Grail knights are generally speaking more aloof and humble than normal knights, but questing knights arent grail knights yet. Here is an exemple of a bretonnian knight's oppinion of fighting on foot: "A knight's place is in the saddle! Why must I practise fighting on foot like a peasant? I do not plan on trudging through the mud to war like a commoner."
"A knight does not always have the luxury of choosing the circumstances he fights in. What happens if your horse is slain beneath you?"
"I'll get a new horse!"
"What if the battle takes place upon a muddy mire, and your lord orders you to fight on foot?"
"Then my lord would be a damned fool for choosing such a ridiculous battlefield!"
"Gunthar stared at the young man with cold, humourless, grey eyes. His moustache twitched in irritation...". That quote is from the knights of bretonnia omnibus by anthony renolds.

Now, ill give you something, questing knights that have been questing for long periods of time generally are indeed more humble, but it just dosnt occur to them to fight on foot generally because the bretonnian mindset dosnt take that into account. Their horses are also kind of like best friends for bretonnians, the bretonnian warhorse is a drastically diffenrent breed from the imperial warhorse, its bigger, more powerfull, more intelligent and a lot more mean, owing to it being of elven stock. Ill also give you that knights generally do fight on foot sometimes, you had a unit on tabletop which was foot knights, the lore being their horse is dead or circumstances oblige. Questing knights do fight on foot when they have to, like for exemple if their delving into some lost dwarven bastion or if they are going into a cave to slay a wyvern. Why would they use travelling horses though? Those are for yeomen or "burghers" which are just slightly better peasents.

[Seven Samurott]

Well like I said before the point of using a lower quality horse is to teach humility. Also to reinforce the idea that a Questing Vow shouldn't be taken lightly. You are losing practically every symbol of knighthood to prove yourself to the Lady.

[Puggly the Grey]

I can’t say much on the lore that hasn’t been said already, but I do think it would be nice if Bretonnia got a Foot-knight unit with encourage.

[ssumbra]

Originally posted by Puggly the Grey:

I can’t say much on the lore that hasn’t been said already, but I do think it would be nice if Bretonnia got a Foot-knight unit with encourage. :donpug:

would be nice if they added the already existing tabletop rule that if there are peasent units next to a knight, their leadship gets tested with the knights value. Basically, if you put knights next to peasents, they get buffed to the knights leadership.

[ssumbra]

Originally posted by Seven Samurott:

Well like I said before the point of using a lower quality horse is to teach humility. Also to reinforce the idea that a Questing Vow shouldn't be taken lightly. You are losing practically every symbol of knighthood to prove yourself to the Lady.

It isnt taken lightly by default, most knights dont take the questing vow. Especially not young knights. The lessons you think the questing vow teaches them have mostly already been tought, those that are younger, second sons and the like, will not have appreciated the "symbols of knighthood" like you say. The "symbols" you speak off are pretty much just the lance, since thats what is mostly associated with knights.
They also are still questing knights. Notice the knights at the end. They go on a quest, but theyre still knights, wouldnt make sense for them to throw everything aside, beside making said quest needlessly more tedious and harder. Few already make it, it would be dumb to reduce the chances* even further. Theyre already setting aside the main symbol of being a knight of the realm anyway: the lance.

[A.Pot]

Because the Dark Gods have this weird way of keeping one another in balance. Its Slaanesh who is acknowledged in the official source material to be capable of eclipsing them all.

Questing Knights foot it when they are off the battlefield and on adventures. Total War Warhammer does not cover the adventure aspect and only the battlefield part where Bretonnian Knights in general would rather fight on horseback.

[Ashardalon]

Originally posted by Seven Samurott:

They fight on the level of a common man to appreciate what they lose in pursuing their vow and it teaches humility, one of the chivalrous virtues. It would be interesting flavor if they form a deep bond with their travelling horse and retire it to the stables to live out the rest of its days in peace after they finish their quest.

that would imply brettonians seeing any value in the common man

[cb4n28]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

Originally posted by Seven Samurott:

They fight on the level of a common man to appreciate what they lose in pursuing their vow and it teaches humility, one of the chivalrous virtues. It would be interesting flavor if they form a deep bond with their travelling horse and retire it to the stables to live out the rest of its days in peace after they finish their quest.

that would imply brettonians seeing any value in the common man

Yeah, people forget that Bretonnia is like the most impoverished, most miserable "good" nation to live in for like 98% of it's population. I mean being a Bretonnian Peasant is better than being a Skavenslave or a Snotling but not by as much as the Knights and Nobility would have you believe

[ssumbra]

Originally posted by cb4n28:

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

that would imply brettonians seeing any value in the common man

Yeah, people forget that Bretonnia is like the most impoverished, most miserable "good" nation to live in for like 98% of it's population. I mean being a Bretonnian Peasant is better than being a Skavenslave or a Snotling but not by as much as the Knights and Nobility would have you believe

Being a snotling aint so bad, you dont have the intellect to actually understand how miserable your life is so your happy most of the time.