Undead are stupid

[killtastic201]

They are literally all unbreakable. they just never EVER route. they will fight down to the literal last unit basically every time. even when they're crumbling it's basically nothing. a pathetic little health drain they can pull out of easily and go back to being 100% fine. this is so busted. I'm not even a MP guy, but it's so frustrating in sieges watching your units have to grind through unbreakable t1 chaff. oh also there is now a bug that makes it so undead armies can regroup on the campaign map too, so even though they disintegrated right in front of you due to army losses, there they are with half a stack left somehow. WHY?!

[jonoliveira12]

Undead have no morale, they are the perfect servants.
That is very thematic, logical, and exactly what you would expect from an Undead army.

On teh other hand, you need only snipe teh Lord, and they will start to crumble even outside of combat, except for a few select units.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Undead have no morale, they are the perfect servants.
That is very thematic, logical, and exactly what you would expect from an Undead army.

On teh other hand, you need only snipe teh Lord, and they will start to crumble even outside of combat, except for a few select units.

Lord died is only -16 LS, not autocrumble.

[Ashardalon]

yes undead dont rout
they die
whats worse, your units running for a little while or just dropping dead
just get a little sad and they die
and once they are dying they get sad because dying isnt fun so its impossible to pull out
undeath isnt a positive its a mayor penalty thats easy to exploit
thats why they get a campaign buff that lets them recover a bit because they always lose everything unlike mortals who get a second chance
now demons also need a compensation for that massive penalty of not being mortal

[jonoliveira12]

Undead factions have way too many handicaps for that to be a problem.
Vamp Counts have no Ranged, TKs have the slowest unlocking tech tree and obnoxious unit limitations, and Vamp Coast needs tech quite a bit to get some good Melee Infantry and any Cavalry at all.

Undead factions are some of the most balanced in the entire game, and Tomb Kings is literally playing with both hands tied.
You should not be having any issues facing them, unless you are not building your armies properly, and are still trying to depend on basic units.

[A.Pot]

Oh wow another learn to play thread

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

yes undead dont rout
they die
whats worse, your units running for a little while or just dropping dead
just get a little sad and they die
and once they are dying they get sad because dying isnt fun so its impossible to pull out
undeath isnt a positive its a mayor penalty thats easy to exploit
thats why they get a campaign buff that lets them recover a bit because they always lose everything unlike mortals who get a second chance
now demons also need a compensation for that massive penalty of not being mortal

Daemons need no compensation, they all have plenty of Mortal units now, to complement the Daemonic units, and hold off that decay autolose inevitability.

[Ashardalon]

so the way to play demons is to not have demons
also not have a red line in your lords
no

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Undead factions have way too many handicaps for that to be a problem.
Vamp Counts have no Ranged, TKs have the slowest unlocking tech tree and obnoxious unit limitations, and Vamp Coast needs tech quite a bit to get some good Melee Infantry and any Cavalry at all.

Undead factions are some of the most balanced in the entire game, and Tomb Kings is literally playing with both hands tied.
You should not be having any issues facing them, unless you are not building your armies properly, and are still trying to depend on basic units.

VCoast needs tech for cav?
What?
They don't get cav at all and their tech doesn't unlock units.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

so the way to play demons is to not have demons
also not have a red line in your lords
no

No.
The way to play Daemons, is to not go fully into Daemons, at least until you have powerful enough Daemons and Lords to buff them.

This makes a lot of Lore sense too, seeing as full on Daemonic invasions always had to be preceded by a lot of cult activity, and rampaging Mortal armies hitting the region in preceding years.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Undead factions have way too many handicaps for that to be a problem.
Vamp Counts have no Ranged, TKs have the slowest unlocking tech tree and obnoxious unit limitations, and Vamp Coast needs tech quite a bit to get some good Melee Infantry and any Cavalry at all.

Undead factions are some of the most balanced in the entire game, and Tomb Kings is literally playing with both hands tied.
You should not be having any issues facing them, unless you are not building your armies properly, and are still trying to depend on basic units.

VCoast needs tech for cav?
What?
They don't get cav at all and their tech doesn't unlock units.

Mournguls and Rotting Prometheans act as faux Cavalry for Vamp Coast, bot need higher up building chains, which is a Tech Tree, Tech does not necessarily mean Research.
Cylostra also gets ghost Bretonnian Cavalry of 3 varieties, if I am not mistaken.

Evn the Mourngul Haunters (Heroes) can effectively act as Cavalry, since they get 28 basic Charge Bonus, +30 with skills, and can push around Infantry like no tomorrow, exactly like Heavy Cavalry can.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Fryskar:

VCoast needs tech for cav?
What?
They don't get cav at all and their tech doesn't unlock units.

Mournguls and Rotting Prometheans act as faux Cavalry for Vamp Coast, bot need higher up building chains, which is a Tech Tree, Tech does not necessarily mean Research.
Cylostra also gets ghost Bretonnian Cavalry of 3 varieties, if I am not mistaken.

Evn the Mourngul Haunters (Heroes) can effectively act as Cavalry, since they get 28 basic Charge Bonus, +30 with skills, and can push around Infantry like no tomorrow, exactly like Heavy Cavalry can.

Monsters are monsters. Yes, they work somewhat smiliar.
Techtree is that stuff you research, not building tiers. It also makes no sense to even bring up as all factions need to do it.

[Ashardalon]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

This makes a lot of Lore sense too, seeing as full on Daemonic invasions always had to be preceded by a lot of cult activity, and rampaging Mortal armies hitting the region in preceding years.

as soon as reality breaks the mortals dont last long
so no, it doesnt make sense to have both in the same place

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Mournguls and Rotting Prometheans act as faux Cavalry for Vamp Coast, bot need higher up building chains, which is a Tech Tree, Tech does not necessarily mean Research.
Cylostra also gets ghost Bretonnian Cavalry of 3 varieties, if I am not mistaken.

Evn the Mourngul Haunters (Heroes) can effectively act as Cavalry, since they get 28 basic Charge Bonus, +30 with skills, and can push around Infantry like no tomorrow, exactly like Heavy Cavalry can.

Monsters are monsters. Yes, they work somewhat smiliar.
Techtree is that stuff you research, not building tiers. It also makes no sense to even bring up as all factions need to do it.

They work somewhat similar precisely because tehy are there to cover the function of Cavalry, even if they are not "really" Cavalry.
Most factions get Cavalry (or equivalent) much sooner than VCoast, so you can easily bully those Zombie Pirates around, early on. It is not until T3 that Vamp Coast starts getting decent armies.

All Undead factions are gimped to Hell and back, for the benefits of not retreating. Vamp Coast may be the least gimped of them all, but it still is.
Undead are super balanced in this game, except fot TKs which need buffs to troop limits on many of their unit unlocking buildings.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Ashardalon:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

This makes a lot of Lore sense too, seeing as full on Daemonic invasions always had to be preceded by a lot of cult activity, and rampaging Mortal armies hitting the region in preceding years.

as soon as reality breaks the mortals dont last long
so no, it doesnt make sense to have both in the same place

It usually takes decades for reality to "break", and even then it is usually a localized event.
Making the player depend a lot on god-dedicated Mortals at the beggining, makes a lot of Lorse sense.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Monsters are monsters. Yes, they work somewhat smiliar.
Techtree is that stuff you research, not building tiers. It also makes no sense to even bring up as all factions need to do it.

They work somewhat similar precisely because tehy are there to cover the function of Cavalry, even if they are not "really" Cavalry.
Most factions get Cavalry (or equivalent) much sooner than VCoast, so you can easily bully those Zombie Pirates around, early on. It is not until T3 that Vamp Coast starts getting decent armies.

All Undead factions are gimped to Hell and back, for the benefits of not retreating. Vamp Coast may be the least gimped of them all, but it still is.
Undead are super balanced in this game, except fot TKs which need buffs to troop limits on many of their unit unlocking buildings.

They got differences, enough to not lump them together.
Barly any monster has shields, many are larger and easier to hit, most are slower than cav, most got better MA/MD, but lower charge.
They can try to perform the same role, but would be better off if not played exactly like cav.

From what i'm hearing of MP, undead are rather not gimped, but overtuned.