Could Archaon beat a Primarch? :: 토탈워: 워해머 3 일반 토론

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John Cena

2022년 8월 1일 오전 1시 55분

Could Archaon beat a Primarch?

Lets say he faces the weakest primarch (Magnus w/ no psychic powers), could he even win?

Could he beat the Emperor or a Custodes or a Squat?

Personally, I think he will lose to all those things except maybe the Squat.

He is basically a Space Marine with some magic so like a Librarian. He lost to Grimgor who is basically a low tier Warboss (cant even take over the planet I mean come on).

No AoS stuff cuz thats lame.

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첫 게시자: Falaris:

Kalder's Caffeinated Drink님이 먼저 게시:
I would like to think he can solo a space marine or even a chapter master, but 40K lore states SM think and move faster than a normal human, despite being 3 times the size, Archeon, on the other hand, is a baseline human, heavily blessed, yeah, but he doesn't have high tech implants or chainswords that, and this is LORE, have "monomolecular edge" so they cut at molecular level, and ceramite armour can stop AT rounds, maybe not on the head, but the chest can probably stop a tank round, maybe in a fist fight he could win, but 40K stuff is just so far off what a normal human can do, best way normal people can compete is take a peek at the Zerg book of strategies and just throw enough numbers at the enemy the same way Elon Musk throws money at SpaceX, and hope the enemy run out of ammo or gets bored.

There's this thing in WH40k that is very important. One thing is how things are described, and then you have the actual game rules.

For instance, that ceramite that can stop tank rounds? Can is a big word. It usually doesn't. One burst with almost any weapon, and there's a good chance you kill that space marine. That 'nearly unkillable superhuman' get killed roughly as easily as a regular human as long as he's not in a bare knuckle fight and someone's using a weapon that is at least decent... and everyone use that.

That Space Marine that is bigger, faster, and stronger than a human? Well,, actually, he walks at the same speed, despite being taller. Gulliman has a speed of 8 compared to a regular guardsman's 6. That's how superhuman fast he is.

There's a big disconnect between the fluff and actual rules.

Now, we know demons use the same stats in both settings. A bloodletter in 40k is (roughly) the same as one in WFB. We can assume the rules scale.

And do you know how Archaeon stacks up to Gulliman rules-wise? Well, the rules are not 1-1 equivalent. You have to handwave and guesstimate a bit; the WFB rules are kind of like the WH40k rules but you've done another level of calculations/abstractions on them, but they obviously have the same base numbers behind them.

And Archaeon is pretty damn good. Unfortunately, the easy stats to find for him - on Wahapedia - his only stats are the AoS stats while on Dhorgar. That's sufficient to see that... Gulliman - the only currently living Primarch - would have a bad day. As far as I can tell he'd kind of lose even without accounting for Archaeon being able to cast two spells per round in addition to fighting normally, and spells are a big deal.

https://wahapedia.ru/wh40k9ed/factions/space-marines/Roboute-Guilliman
https://wahapedia.ru/aos3/factions/slaves-to-darkness/Archaon-the-Everchosen

If someone digs up Archaeon's base 8th edition stats, though, great. :)

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53개 댓글 중 16-30개 표시

Garatgh Deloi 토탈워: 워해머 3 항목을 가지고 있음

2022년 8월 1일 오전 6시 48분

Ashardalon님이 먼저 게시:

and what would he really do with that sword, does a sword do more then a warhound titans plasmagun?

Considering many a Primarch has been killed or near killed by deamon swords (For example, Horrus, Ferrus, Sanguinius, Roboute, heck Alpharious was cleaved in two by a chainsword, etc).

I'd say... yes? :D (That said Primarch lore concerning their strength tends to be rather inconsistent).

Garatgh Deloi 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2022년 8월 1일 오전 6시 50분

#16

Ashardalon 토탈워: 워해머 3 항목을 가지고 있음

2022년 8월 1일 오전 6시 51분

thats a pretty specific sword for horus
ferrus, that was a primarch decapitating him, the sword needs to be sharp but irrelevant if it was demon or not , its the primarch hand that killed
same pretty specific sword for the rowboat
and alpharius isnt dead and your a fool to believe that, all that was just a lie just like this

#17

Garatgh Deloi 토탈워: 워해머 3 항목을 가지고 있음

2022년 8월 1일 오전 6시 59분

Ashardalon님이 먼저 게시:
thats a pretty specific sword for horus
ferrus, that was a primarch decapitating him, the sword needs to be sharp but irrelevant if it was demon or not , its the primarch hand that killed
same pretty specific sword for the rowboat
and alpharius isnt dead and your a fool to believe that, all that was just a lie just like this

If a primarch is holding the blade or not isn't relevant to the question if the sword itself is powerful enough to kill a primarch.

Fulgrims blade (The Blade of the Laer) is a blade containing a greater deamon, Archeons sword (U'zhul, Slayer of kings) is a sword containing a greater deamon.

Not saying Archeon himself would be able to do it, just saying that his weapon is likely powerful enough (for example if another primarch used it like Fulgrim did with the Laer sword).

Garatgh Deloi 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2022년 8월 1일 오전 6시 59분

#18

Ashardalon 토탈워: 워해머 3 항목을 가지고 있음

2022년 8월 1일 오전 7시 15분

a sharp piece of rebar is capable of killing a primarch in the hands of a primarch
yes it is relevant

fulgrim could have killed him with the fireblade just as easily, or just a powersword
by the time he killed ferrus with that sword there was no longer a demon inside
it was just a beautiful, well balanced, very sharp blade

#19

Captainbeastfeast (Rat-ee-JiK) 토탈워: 워해머 3 항목을 가지고 있음

2022년 8월 1일 오전 7시 16분

he's not real

#20

Imposter

2022년 8월 1일 오전 7시 37분

Emilia-Extra님이 먼저 게시:
Archaon was able to choke an Bloodthirster with his own Whip and in ET he fought versus multiple Incarnations of the magic Winds, with Grimgor as the Incarnation of the Wind of Beasts and Grimgor lost his Head in this Fight, so i would say Archaon could beat some Custodes...
With Primarchs, you mean only her human Forms or the Demon Primarchs too?

That was a fairy tale. The real version: Archaon had ALL the power, and lost his all his teef, from Grimgor's head-butt, and strapped them together as a necklace. Archaon is a chump.

#21

Jarges

2022년 8월 1일 오전 7시 50분

Emilia-Extra님이 먼저 게시:
with Grimgor as the Incarnation of the Wind of Beasts and Grimgor lost his Head in this Fight, so i would say Archaon could beat some Custodes...

I hate being THAT guy, but, Grimgor actually won that duel, before GW realized that they ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up and they needed to end the franchise so they retconned it. They did it live as well and it was hilarious.

Luke Skywalker님이 먼저 게시:
Lets say he faces the weakest primarch (Magnus w/ no psychic powers), could he even win?

To answer this question, it depends on what is needed for the story. Warhammer universe does not have hard rules that they follow, anyone can beat anything if the story demands it. You want ork boy massacaring 5 carnifexes? You got it. You want lone spacemarine taking down a bloodthirster? You got it. Etc. etc.

Jarges 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2022년 8월 1일 오전 7시 52분

#22

✳Sindri Myr✳ 토탈워: 워해머 3 항목을 가지고 있음

2022년 8월 1일 오전 8시 12분

Archaon's counterpart in 40k is Abbaddon. Primarchs are a challange for him, though he can defeat them. He actualy killed a Horuses' clone so.... Considering Archaon is probobly somewhat weaker then Abbaddon i guess he would actualy lose.

#23

Ashardalon 토탈워: 워해머 3 항목을 가지고 있음

2022년 8월 1일 오전 8시 15분

that horus was flawed in many ways
soulless, untrained, basically a simpleton
a hollow simulacra, one of fabius his first attempts he still had a lot to learn

#24

✳Sindri Myr✳ 토탈워: 워해머 3 항목을 가지고 있음

2022년 8월 1일 오전 8시 25분

Ashardalon님이 먼저 게시:
that horus was flawed in many ways
soulless, untrained, basically a simpleton
a hollow simulacra, one of fabius his first attempts he still had a lot to learn

always wondered where this "Horus on Easy" atitude comes from. It is never described as such in a book. He also knows how to use his armour and weapons for example.

#25