Warriors of Chaos SLOW Recruiting

[Spectre]

@CA any chance to tweak the Warrior of Chaos how they recruit Units sucks it's basically the Raise Dead Mechanic but we can't recruit units as Normal like the Vampire Counts can and I don't like being stuck waiting for 7 turns to get a unit back into my recruitment pool this need adjusting a lot.

Also this makes Warriors of Chaos now the slowest army in the game to get going, Buy a Base Marauder Unit, get them to Rank 5 then upgrade to a Chaos Warrior and back to Rank 0 then Rank them up again to Rank 7 upgrade to Chosen back to Rank 0 AGAIN then you have to Rank them up one last time to get to Rank 9, This is a crap slow system and in the later game as you are recruiting low Rank Warriors and Marauders they don't compete against late game units at least not in Very Hard+ Please fix make it more playable and fun because this is not.

[NeverADullDoor]

So, adapt your strategy - use your high tier, high experience early armies as a spearhead to venture deep into enemy territory and smash their armies to bits, use the fngs as a mop up force, taking minor settlements and capitols with smaller garrisons in the wake of your advance, all while grinding out levels to get them up to snuff with the big boys. By the by, this is also generally how I played Beastman in WH2 - put all the good units in 1 - 2 armies and have mobs of mainly ungors running around doing busy work until I can afford to increase my unit cap on more useful troops.

[IonizedMercury]

LoL, "slow" recruting? WoC can build doomstacks faster than any other race and that's the main reason why their campaigns are so utterly boring.

Late game units should simply not show up in the recruitment pool until a few dozen turns have passed.

[The Grand Mugwump]

Between the six allied units we can have in an army, the gifted unit pool and dark fortress buildings, it's usually not hard for me to spit out a tier 2+ army on demand once every 10-20 turns (that RNG does kind of suck). And I can spam marauders, chaos trolls and chaos spawn extremely easily.

And the undivided gift for marauders goes a long way towards minimizing the time they spend as marauders and not something more useful, as well as making them very good at human wave tactics with the boost to their casualty replenishment. It's one of my top two undivided gifts I prioritize alongside the 15% missile resist/siegebreaker spell one.

[Elitewrecker PT]

With a 16 or so % chance to get a chaos warrior in your pool you may indeed be waiting a dozen turns just to have a couple.

[Totally Not Myers]

Spectre님이 먼저 게시:

Totally Not Myers님이 먼저 게시:

Nah I like this style. It thematically matches the WoC as a warband gaining warriors as they go, and those warriors fighting and becoming champions of Chaos as they continue to fight in the warband.

I don't mind the upgrade system it works lore wise but going to Rank 0 is painful imagine if you upgraded a Lord to Demon Prince and lost all your Ranks instead of keeping half I don't think you would see too many Demon Princes they can make it less of a time waste which is exactly what it is right now.

Yeah that's silly

[The Grand Mugwump]

The Grand Mugwump님이 먼저 게시:

Between the six allied units we can have in an army, the gifted unit pool and dark fortress buildings, it's usually not hard for me to spit out a tier 2+ army on demand once every 10-20 turns (that RNG does kind of suck). And I can spam marauders, chaos trolls and chaos spawn extremely easily.

And the undivided gift for marauders goes a long way towards minimizing the time they spend as marauders and not something more useful, as well as making them very good at human wave tactics with the boost to their casualty replenishment. It's one of my top two undivided gifts I prioritize alongside the 15% missile resist/siegebreaker spell one.

I do feel I need to clarify. Due to what is probably a bug, the game doesn't always prompt you to build outposts in your vassal's territory. It has to be done manually. Once I figured this out, I had an easier time recruiting higher tier units for my warbands.

[Mr. Ape]

PMarricks님이 먼저 게시:

LoL, "slow" recruting? WoC can build doomstacks faster than any other race and that's the main reason why their campaigns are so utterly boring.

Late game units should simply not show up in the recruitment pool until a few dozen turns have passed.

It's a double edge sword. With high Chaos corruption, you can recruit dragon ogres and giants in the beginning of the game. This allows for doom stacks early on.

However, in the late game, the recruitment system becomes a burden. High Tier units never show up at high enough numbers, and chosen (argubly one of your best infantry units) still have to be trained from chaos warriors. This is not mentioning super elites like Doom Knights that takes forever to be trained even from Chaos Knights.

Compare this system with a monogod faction where you can literally spam a 20 stack of DoomKnights, it really hampers the late game army expansion.

[Funky Monk]

You know you shouldnt be recruiting by staying in 1 region. As soon as you finished recruiting in 1 region move that lord to another one. You can easily get 4 knights, 6 warriors, 1-2 aspiring champion, 2 dragon ogres, 1-2 hero, 2-3 gifted units and 1-2 allied recruitment in just 2 turns in late game. So yeah the recruitment isnt problematic at all

[IonizedMercury]

Mr. Ape님이 먼저 게시:

PMarricks님이 먼저 게시:

LoL, "slow" recruting? WoC can build doomstacks faster than any other race and that's the main reason why their campaigns are so utterly boring.

Late game units should simply not show up in the recruitment pool until a few dozen turns have passed.

It's a double edge sword. With high Chaos corruption, you can recruit dragon ogres and giants in the beginning of the game. This allows for doom stacks early on.

However, in the late game, the recruitment system becomes a burden. High Tier units never show up at high enough numbers, and chosen (argubly one of your best infantry units) still have to be trained from chaos warriors. This is not mentioning super elites like Doom Knights that takes forever to be trained even from Chaos Knights.

Compare this system with a monogod faction where you can literally spam a 20 stack of DoomKnights, it really hampers the late game army expansion.

I've long lost all interest in playing that campaign by then.

Sorry, but if the beginning is a boring snoozefest, I simply won't stick around on the off-chance that I might have fun 100 turns later.

Not that I believe at all that you'll encounter any reak opposition by then anyway as the cowardly AI is incapable of forming any sort of resistance at any point in the game.

[Spectre]

Elitewrecker PT님이 먼저 게시:

With a 16 or so % chance to get a chaos warrior in your pool you may indeed be waiting a dozen turns just to have a couple.

I had 34% chance on Marauders after recruiting 5 I got back 1 so I feel that pain and it's even worse for Chaos Warriors & Knights.

[Spectre]

Mr. Ape님이 먼저 게시:

PMarricks님이 먼저 게시:

LoL, "slow" recruting? WoC can build doomstacks faster than any other race and that's the main reason why their campaigns are so utterly boring.

Late game units should simply not show up in the recruitment pool until a few dozen turns have passed.

It's a double edge sword. With high Chaos corruption, you can recruit dragon ogres and giants in the beginning of the game. This allows for doom stacks early on.

However, in the late game, the recruitment system becomes a burden. High Tier units never show up at high enough numbers, and chosen (argubly one of your best infantry units) still have to be trained from chaos warriors. This is not mentioning super elites like Doom Knights that takes forever to be trained even from Chaos Knights.

Compare this system with a monogod faction where you can literally spam a 20 stack of DoomKnights, it really hampers the late game army expansion.

I 100% agree the Horde faction was good but the Empire was usually a ruin for me by turn 70 with multiple armies running around but now I am lucky to have 2 armies and issues from Malus on 1 side, Empire and Dwarfs from the South and Grimgor or Nakai on my other flank with more armies id be able to handle the pressure but not when they have 10+ for every 1 you have.

[Spectre]

Funky Monk님이 먼저 게시:

You know you shouldnt be recruiting by staying in 1 region. As soon as you finished recruiting in 1 region move that lord to another one. You can easily get 4 knights, 6 warriors, 1-2 aspiring champion, 2 dragon ogres, 1-2 hero, 2-3 gifted units and 1-2 allied recruitment in just 2 turns in late game. So yeah the recruitment isnt problematic at all

I did answer this in an early post and yes it is a problem because you can rarely get 2 Knights I recruited 1 and jumping between 3 different Dark Fortress sites I didn't get another 1 for 7 turns the RNG is the issue because it leaves us either with a chance based recruitment or having to slowly rank something up to upgrade them I know how the system works all to well and it isn't good.

[The Grand Mugwump]

Spectre님이 먼저 게시:

Mr. Ape님이 먼저 게시:

It's a double edge sword. With high Chaos corruption, you can recruit dragon ogres and giants in the beginning of the game. This allows for doom stacks early on.

However, in the late game, the recruitment system becomes a burden. High Tier units never show up at high enough numbers, and chosen (argubly one of your best infantry units) still have to be trained from chaos warriors. This is not mentioning super elites like Doom Knights that takes forever to be trained even from Chaos Knights.

Compare this system with a monogod faction where you can literally spam a 20 stack of DoomKnights, it really hampers the late game army expansion.

I 100% agree the Horde faction was good but the Empire was usually a ruin for me by turn 70 with multiple armies running around but now I am lucky to have 2 armies and issues from Malus on 1 side, Empire and Dwarfs from the South and Grimgor or Nakai on my other flank with more armies id be able to handle the pressure but not when they have 10+ for every 1 you have.

When I started as Archaon, I had ~8 vassals before I even started pushing south in Kislev and the Empire. The first third of my campaign was spent bullying my chaos neighbors and subjugating them. Each of those vassals, due to AI tomfoolery, can sustain two armies on their own as well. It really does help keep things under control. I tried to make sure I'd get the dark fortress building though, but I prioritized having a vassal over that. The skaven to the south are a good example, since letting them keep the province capital lets me have ratling gunners and skaven artillery in my warbands now.

At late game, due to my overwhelming strength from spamming warbands, many chaos factions around the world were accepting becoming my vassal without having to threaten or attack them.

[Ainess]

Spectre님이 먼저 게시:

Cyiel님이 먼저 게시:

You can get exp pretty easely so no reason to do so. Lords (first skill redline), Hero, techs. Honestly you don't these "fixes".

You can get 225 exp a Turn from the Lord and max Exp Exalted Hero but it is still not fast enough when you have to upgrade and go to Rank 0 that many times it's boring and annoying and why would a unit that becomes a better unit suddenly lose all their experience did they fall down and bang their head

Them turning to a higher-tier unit *is* their XP lol. Rank 0 chaos warriors are already way stronger than rank 5 chaos marauders.

[The Grand Mugwump]

Ainess님이 먼저 게시:

Spectre님이 먼저 게시:

You can get 225 exp a Turn from the Lord and max Exp Exalted Hero but it is still not fast enough when you have to upgrade and go to Rank 0 that many times it's boring and annoying and why would a unit that becomes a better unit suddenly lose all their experience did they fall down and bang their head

Them turning to a higher-tier unit *is* their XP lol. Rank 0 chaos warriors are already way stronger than rank 5 chaos marauders.

That's why having vassals and building outposts is so important. It's very useful that the monogod minor factions can let you recruit marked chaos warriors from them as allied units, and it's even more useful those marked units can be upgraded using the warband upgrade feature.

There's probably a reason why warrior of chaos red skills are worded so vaguely, like "all non-daemonic infantry gain bonuses." They're supposed to be a hodge podge of allied units and whatever else they can recruit.