Cathay is broken in land battles

[Mr. Teufel]

As the title says, the basic troops of Cathay (jade warriors) are way more powerful than they should be. They beat units one on one that they should stand no chance against.
For example: Jade warriors (low-mid tier unit with no AP) comfortably beats white lions (300 extra gold unit with decent armor and AP) and they trade very effectively even against chosen for only 500 gold...

[Freya]

jade warriors arent basic troops, theyre tier 2, the basic troop is the peasant

[Cacomistle]

I don't believe that in the slightest. I've fought a stack of jade warriors with a stack of black arc corsairs, and I was surprised to see that they only killed like 100 troops (and this was a fresh lord early game, so my army wasn't on steroids yet).

Obviously the ai plays worse than player, but I've gone up vs say a stack of saurus with a similar army and they don't win by much. I think white lions trade around even with saurus, and chosen put them in the dirt.

Cathay is also one of the worst MP factions, which seems hard to imagine if they had infantry performing at near double their cost.

What is making you think jade warriors win vs white lions? I'd like to see that myself.

[sleeper]

yes take a picture

[Zane87]

Depends. I think white lions are trash and wouldn't use them in any campaign, but yes ying yang buffed Cathay infantry is very potent. And just normal without said buff.

So when fighting against Cathay it's rather simple: shoot their nearest missile troops to pieces and the buffs disappear as well.

And then yade warriors are just basic shielded infantry troops any decent specialized infantry or monster kills easily.

And really, don't use white lions unless for few niche cases

[Jervoise]

jade warriors are SUPER slanted. their defensive stats are super high for their tier (it says one but their bordering T2) especially armour, but their actual damage is super weak. but tier 3 units are so extremley hard to achieve as cathay that your ranged has to make up for it, which makes you more susceptible to cavalry, which is where cathays main army balance comes in.

[The Sand Witch]

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

Cathay is also one of the worst MP factions, which seems hard to imagine if they had infantry performing at near double their cost.

Not so bad in land battles though

[Mr. Teufel]

Yeah I missed to mention, I was talking about MP and land battles in specific. There I can't just spam sword masters kind of units nor monsters because of the limited funds and they will get shot to pieces. All I say is that a 500 gold unit is putting units to dirt which should be way out of their league

[Mr. Teufel]

Originally posted by The Sand Witch:

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

Cathay is also one of the worst MP factions, which seems hard to imagine if they had infantry performing at near double their cost.

Not so bad in land battles though

In land battles they are a menace

[The Sand Witch]

Btw, simple comparison.
Swordsmen (Empire): 400 gold / average stats / 30 armor
Jade Warriors (Cathay): 500 gold / average stats / 80 armor

I suppose when Cathay will receive a DLC to make them more potent, they will balance out the unit. Right now, the faction is performing so poorly (not talking campaign of course) that they won't nerf them.

But, yeah, for 500g, jade warriors overperform by quite a margin.

[Kinja]

Originally posted by Mr. Teufel:

Originally posted by The Sand Witch:

Not so bad in land battles though

In land battles they are a menace

They're not, go watch some actual competitive matches, there was a tournament recently, Cathay is weak.

[[OTS]EchoZenLogos]

Originally posted by Mr. Teufel:

As the title says, the basic troops of Cathay (jade warriors) are way more powerful than they should be. They beat units one on one that they should stand no chance against.
For example: Jade warriors (low-mid tier unit with no AP) comfortably beats white lions (300 extra gold unit with decent armor and AP) and they trade very effectively even against chosen for only 500 gold...

Your example is outright false. Based on their stats alone the White Lions of Chrace are superior to Jade Warriors in melee, unless you buffed up your warriors somehow.

I'm gonna test this out in fact.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Mr. Teufel:

Yeah I missed to mention, I was talking about MP and land battles in specific. There I can't just spam sword masters kind of units nor monsters because of the limited funds and they will get shot to pieces. All I say is that a 500 gold unit is putting units to dirt which should be way out of their league

Again, what makes you think they do.

If you look at the 2 units, even if we assume 100% multiplier on harmony, the jade warrior has less armor (90 vs 80), less weapon strength (about the same accounting for the fact they have more models), non ap, similar leadership, 8 less melee attack but 8 more md, less charge, and about 10% more hp (white lions are also 20% faster but that doesn't affect who wins 1v1).

Based on those numbers, they're pretty similar, but white lion is ap and jade warrior isn't. Therefore, the jade warrior would obviously lose. Remember that's assuming 100% harmony multiplier, their stats aren't even close without it.

I tried it out in a custom battle (though that was vs ai so its not perfectly ideal) If you combine that with miao ying and her -8 melee attack buff, its about even.

With a lord magistrate (not using buffs), which is still 50% harmony amplifier so its still pretty decent conditions for the jade warriors, the white lions win with a bit under half their hp left. They do hold out for a long period of time.


So again, I do not believe you at all. The jade warriors do not win without stacking buffs on them (such as by having miao ying nearby for her 100% harmony and -8 melee attack debuff).

You could potentially still consider that overperforming (though I'd be equally inclined to say white lions underperform), but they definitely lose.

[Sarcastro]

Originally posted by The Sand Witch:

Btw, simple comparison.
Swordsmen (Empire): 400 gold / average stats / 30 armor
Jade Warriors (Cathay): 500 gold / average stats / 80 armor

I suppose when Cathay will receive a DLC to make them more potent, they will balance out the unit. Right now, the faction is performing so poorly (not talking campaign of course) that they won't nerf them.

But, yeah, for 500g, jade warriors overperform by quite a margin.

So a tier 2 infantry unit needs its cost adjusted in MP, sounds simple. Hope they get around to after they fix all the bugs in IE.

[The Sand Witch]

Originally posted by Kinja:

Originally posted by Mr. Teufel:

In land battles they are a menace

They're not, go watch some actual competitive matches, there was a tournament recently, Cathay is weak.

A land battle tournament or domination tournament?

Last matches I've seen them in, even in domination, they did fine and won. It was pure infantry swarm, both ranged and melee in attrition and holding points.

[The Sand Witch]

Originally posted by Sarcastro:

Originally posted by The Sand Witch:

Btw, simple comparison.
Swordsmen (Empire): 400 gold / average stats / 30 armor
Jade Warriors (Cathay): 500 gold / average stats / 80 armor

I suppose when Cathay will receive a DLC to make them more potent, they will balance out the unit. Right now, the faction is performing so poorly (not talking campaign of course) that they won't nerf them.

But, yeah, for 500g, jade warriors overperform by quite a margin.

So a tier 2 infantry unit needs its cost adjusted in MP, sounds simple. Hope they get around to after they fix all the bugs in IE.

Yeah although that's a maybe, who knows where the game will be once they get a DLC. Plenty of things could change by then.

Maybe they don't overperform that much as I'm saying and it's the Empire infantry that underperforms.

We shall see in due time.