The Immortal Empires map should have included the chaos god realms.

[genericwhitemale]

Most of the playerbase is rightly apprehensive about having demon factions seated in the mainland for Immortal Empires. I too think chaos should've been placed at the roof of the world, their ancestral position, followed by the undivided chaos factions and then a layer of human chaos/norscan factions and so on - build the huge map, which could've been CA's magnum opus, as logic and lore would dictate. And leave the semi-randomised starting positions (which could be fun) as an offshot mod.

At the very top they should've drawn in some creative iteration of the unique chaos god realms (which they fumbled in RoC) as the demon starting positions, making them highly inhabitable by all regular factions etc. There should always be a sense of foreboding scrolling to the north (which was captured perfectly in the first game), and rightfully so, Chaos and demons are front and centre in game 3, they should've been given more attention in IE.

Instead what we'll get now is a squished map, with almost no chaos wastes, and no fear of the north.

[DarthHammer]

jonoliveira12 eredeti hozzászólása:

Zeek eredeti hozzászólása:

Yup.

The same goes for the other daemon leaders.

Kairos has been pretty much everywhere including brettonia amd uthuan

Kugath has been to Cathay.

Nkari has been to uthuan and naggaroth for elf play time.

That's the great thing about the daemons, they can pretty much be anywhere you want them to be.

N´kari is actually more likely to visit Ulthuan, whenever he recovers from defeat, than he is to play a part in the continuous conflicts in the Realms of Chaos.
He is almost singlemindedly focused on Elves, specially the bloodline of Aenarion.

It's very much a fair point to remember that while their factions are representative of their patron gods, the legendary lords for the chaos factions are independent individuals who have their own plans and goals beyond just serving their respective god in the great game.

[burningmime]

genericwhitemale eredeti hozzászólása:

burningmime eredeti hozzászólása:

I'd be willing to sacrifice any amount of lore for fun factor. I know not everyone is like that, but I'm willing to bet that 80%+ of players of TWW never even played WHFB.

I would've thought it obvious to state but this opinion that "new opponents = fun", or in some way "enhances gameplay", is inherently myopic: the novelty will wear off after a few playthroughs.

And when that happens you'll be left with tzeentch sailing the seas and bretonnia in the jungle.

I disagree heartily, in fact I think the opposite. Having a variety of different races to fight against is inherently more fun than just one, and this matters on every single play through. The factions around you provide either your first enemies or your first allies/trading partners and if they all have the same attitudes towards you the campaign is less interesting. Think Ulthuan in TWW2 -- it's fun maybe once or twice to play as an elf there and unite the other elves, but you rarely have any threats and ultimately it's the same every time. Not so if you're playing as the empire, you never know what's going to happen there because there are so many races fighting over that area.

Further, having a variety of enemies also ensures you have reasons to use different tactics and units in your armies. Not always, of course. But some units are inherently better against certain factions and an army tailored to fight dwarfs isn't necessarily going to be ideal for fighting Khorne or Slaanesh.

So, no, it has nothing to do with novelty factor, it has to do with campaign variety. And it becomes MORE important on 2nd or 3rd playthoughs.

[burningmime]

Ysthrall eredeti hozzászólása:

burningmime eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm willing to bet that 80%+ of players of TWW never even played WHFB.

I dunno, there's always been a fair bit of overlap between the tabletop wargamers and the computer wargamers. Maybe 40%?

WHFB numbers dwindled through the 90s and kinda fell off hard after that. I think when the killed it off, 40k had like 9 times the number of players as WHFB?

[jonoliveira12]

DarthHammer eredeti hozzászólása:

jonoliveira12 eredeti hozzászólása:

N´kari is actually more likely to visit Ulthuan, whenever he recovers from defeat, than he is to play a part in the continuous conflicts in the Realms of Chaos.
He is almost singlemindedly focused on Elves, specially the bloodline of Aenarion.

It's very much a fair point to remember that while their factions are representative of their patron gods, the legendary lords for the chaos factions are independent individuals who have their own plans and goals beyond just serving their respective god in the great game.

Very few Daemons serve their respective Dark God willingly, anyway. They would kill and consume them, if it was possible, and almost everyone of them wants to break free and become a God in their own right.

[Papa Owl]

Neonivek eredeti hozzászólása:

"the vortex either destroyed or weakened (also depending on the cannon of WH2)"

Personally... I think weakened is the canonical ending. Otherwise for IE they would have to eliminate Ursen worship.

The Realm of Chaos Campaign takes place before Warhammer I and II so the events of the Vortex have no bearing on Warhammer 3. I'm not sure what order Warhammer I and II take place in after three, just that they both take place after three. I remember reading somewhere at the time that Warhammer 2's Vortex campaign is happening at the same time as the Warhammer 1 campaign, since the Vortex is entirely divorced from the events in the Old World.

[Ashley]

Vampire Lord Eldyra eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah, I choose fun game over lore accurate 100 times out of 100. I'd rather they did it the way they're doing it than to for example, play a Lizardman faction and know I have 2 options. 1) never encounter a chaos faction or 2) play a 400 turn campaign to encounter a chaos faction.

To flip the script here if you want a lore accurate map, you could always mod it in.

That's why your username is Vampire Lord Eldyra because you too want to see her as a vampire lord too. Good man

[Aleera]

I disagree OP. The chaos god realms should not be on the Immortal Empires map. They have no place on the world map, being something outside of the material plane.

They're on the TWW3 map due to being part of the campaign mechanic. No campaign mechanic, no reason to add them.

[TamoDogo]

Honestly I think OP is cute though, built good
Is this a set up or something? I think he was just trying to get to the beach, he didn't even finish his cookie

(Whoever gets this wins an award)

[Ashardalon]

jonoliveira12 eredeti hozzászólása:

Very few Daemons serve their respective Dark God willingly, anyway. They would kill and consume them, if it was possible, and almost everyone of them wants to break free and become a God in their own right.

they are literally a fragment of their god

[Garatgh Deloi]

Ashardalon eredeti hozzászólása:

they are literally a fragment of their god

When they are created by being separated from the greater entity (the god) more powerful deamons (So especially greater deamons) do develop a mind of their own.

Many of them (and the once mortal deamon princes) hate being enslaved to the greater god :P

I mean Skarbrand that tried to sneak attack Khorne is the perfect example (the reason he was exiled).

But i'm not sure if "very few serve willingly" is correct.

[Ashardalon]

they never stop being a part of the god
they can hate it as much as your liver cells hate you, wich no matter how much you drink, doesnt matter
them developing a mind of their own sounds relevant if you look at the gods imagining a mortal mind, but they are gods
gods of the warp even, so the comparison is ludicrous
and the division irrelevant
they are their god, especially the unique parts, the self hating parts and the exiled parts

[jonoliveira12]

Ashardalon eredeti hozzászólása:

jonoliveira12 eredeti hozzászólása:

Very few Daemons serve their respective Dark God willingly, anyway. They would kill and consume them, if it was possible, and almost everyone of them wants to break free and become a God in their own right.

they are literally a fragment of their god

And because of that, each one see themselves as the one true fragment that should be an actual God.
Chaos Daemons are not humble or servile, by nature.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Ashardalon eredeti hozzászólása:

...

Them still being part of their god becomes irrelevant if they don't have to listen to said god and can even backstab said god.

They are not necessarily going on a mission of their greater god at all times either. They have schemes of their own. They are somewhat independent and given some freedom.

We have two excellent examples of them being independent actors in the games current Legendary lords (that i know of):

We have Skarsbrand that quite literally backstabbed Khorne and was exiled because of it.

We have Ku'gath Plaguefather that accidentally absorbed one of Nurgles new plagues when he was a mere nergling, Nurgle was happy since this resulted in him getting a interesting new Exalted Unclean one, but Ku'gath was so depressed about having ruined the new plague that he became the plaguefather trying to recreate a plague just as good (on his own accord).

[Ashardalon]

Garatgh Deloi eredeti hozzászólása:

Them still being part of their god becomes irrelevant if they don't have to listen to said god and can even backstab said god.

that comes from the misconception that they can backstab them
because if you want to get backstabbed you cant get backstabbed, its just your plan happening
skarbrabd didnt backstab khorne, tzeensh did

Garatgh Deloi eredeti hozzászólása:

They are not necessarily going on a mission of their greater god at all times either. They have schemes of their own. They are somewhat independent and given some freedom.

again looking at a gods plans like a mortals
no their parts missions are their missions thats why a part of them wants it and is doing it

Garatgh Deloi eredeti hozzászólása:

We have Ku'gath Plaguefather that accidentally absorbed one of Nurgles new plagues when he was a mere nergling, Nurgle was happy since this resulted in him getting a interesting new Exalted Unclean one, but Ku'gath was so depressed about having ruined the new plague that he became the plaguefather trying to recreate a plague just as good (on his own accord).

wich exactly proves my point
yes nurgle is a nice friendly grandpa wich will forgive anything his kids will break
but somewhere deep inside he still lost one of his projects, his work was lost
as much as he denies it he was sad about it, the silver lining doesnt remove the cloud
kugath is that part, the only great unclean one whos not jolly all the time
just because nurgle didnt tell him to doesnt make that desire less a part of nurgle

[Pervy]

Turbo Owl eredeti hozzászólása:

Neonivek eredeti hozzászólása:

"the vortex either destroyed or weakened (also depending on the cannon of WH2)"

Personally... I think weakened is the canonical ending. Otherwise for IE they would have to eliminate Ursen worship.

The Realm of Chaos Campaign takes place before Warhammer I and II so the events of the Vortex have no bearing on Warhammer 3. I'm not sure what order Warhammer I and II take place in after three, just that they both take place after three. I remember reading somewhere at the time that Warhammer 2's Vortex campaign is happening at the same time as the Warhammer 1 campaign, since the Vortex is entirely divorced from the events in the Old World.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-iii-faq/

"IS TOTAL WAR: WARHAMMER III GOING TO BE SET DURING THE END TIMES AND FEATURE STUFF FROM AGE OF SIGMAR?
No, as with Total War: WARHAMMER and Total War: WARHAMMER II, Total War: WARHAMMER III is set around the reign of Karl Franz. Our primary source is Warhammer Fantasy Battles 8th Edition, although we have and will continue to use older editions for inspiration where appropriate."

It states warhammer 1-3 are all set around Karl Franz reign.
Where did you read other wise?