ogre bull iron fist weak?

[pugums]

so was playing ogres for the first time and built a number of iron fist bulls. Had a squad do a 1v1 with empire swordsmen and they lost?! is that normal? Like couldnt see any outside influences so why would ogre infantry perform worse then the most basic empire infantry?

[A.Pot]

Its more of you have the wrong expectations. Ogre Bulls are not meant to slug it out with most dedicated melee infantry in 1v1 fights. They are meant to work in tandem with other units like Gnoblars or other Ogres. Otherwise they just get swarmed.

[Aleera]

They're not performing worse.
In general you never want to just use mostrous infantry in a vaccuum against enemy infantry. If they get tangled with anti large or even dedicated melee infantry, they start to lose.

In this case, it's 24 models vs 120. The Ogre's do a splash attack of 3. Dividing their 90 damage over 3 Empire Swordsmen. Which basicly means a Ogre without it's charge, needs 4! attacks to kill enemy models. (69 hp per Empire Swordsmen)
All the while a Ogre model is taking damage from anywhere of 4 enemy models, if not more.

Either you swarm the enemy infantry with chaff (gnoblars in this case) and charge your ogre's through your own lines. This way the Gnoblars eat alot of attacks the Ogre's otherwise would take. Letting the Ogre's take far less damage, while dealing more damage. Because their splash attacks might only hit 2 models, which means they'd do 1/2 their weapon damage to each model. Instead of hitting 3 and spreading their damage 1/3.

Another way to use Ogre infantry is going full out Ogre infantry. Just bring so much the enemy line buckles quickly, routing the enemy, giving you your army ability and just sweep across.

The best use however would be. Send in Gnoblars first. Then charge your Ogres through. let them attack twice, pull them out. Then charge again. Cycle charge them.
If with the full Ogre variant, you send in ironfists first, then flank as best you can with the Dualweapon variant.

Just remember. Never send in monstrous infantry alone against infantry. The sole exception for Ogre's would be Maneaters with Ironfists. 76 Melee defense is just obscene. Or maybe Ironfists against the most basic unit's. But the moment the enemy has any form of AP, Ironfists are just useless.

[King Geedorah]

Every single Ogre unit itself has armor piercing. If you're fighting something with 0-30 armor, part of the value of the Ogre is wasted. If you foresee yourself fighting infantry mobs, Gnoblars and Sabretusks help a lot.

[Orfin]

Yes, iron fist bulls are pointless. Best ogre bull is dual wield Bull. Blob of this dudes will win even against mid-tier hallberds like jade warriors. If you are against mixed forces that is even easier because you can abuse ogres high mass and push right through enemy infantry to their ranged forces, and at this point they are screwed.