Finubar, the Phoenix King.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

Hello reader!

I'm curious about Finubar's absence, both from Total Warhammer but also from the old tabletop games. The Phoenix King is constantly referred to as the most important figure in High Elf culture, and their greatest hero (Anaerion) was the first. We see similar faction-leaders like Karl Franz, Thorgrim, Louen, Malekith, and Orion/Ariel take to the field and being very active people within their respective factions. There is also an active lobby that wants to see Nagash be playable too.

My question then is, why not Finubar? What's the reason for his absence?

[Ashley]

Because he won't be Phoenix King. They'll be a Phoenix Queen though and her name is Eldyra

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

?

[GalloglassCA]

Partially it comes down to what CA wants and plans, partially lore informed and they think fits the game. We're not likely to get Finubar as a lord or hero.

[zefyris]

The real answer is that this current generation's Phoenix king is no fighter. He used to be an ambassador and greatly contributed in restauring the ties between the High Elves and the other orders factions that were cut for millenias. Including dwarves. That's why the previous Phoenix King nominated him as his successor, because he felt that what the HE needed the most in this day and age was someone who knew the world well, was well respected by their allies and wasn't isolationist.

Interestingly, in reverse, the Everqueen is usually no fighter and doesn't lead army. But this generation's Everqueen has been very proactive in that area. So the current generation on that point is reversed.

Regardless of the Everqueens, it's worth noting that only a part of the previous Kings were fighters. Their worst Phoenix king (Caledor II) was one of the better fighter as well, while some of their best never fought on a battlefield. Aenarion was one of the most powerful fighter that the warhammer world has ever seen, but that is not the case for every Phoenix king, at all, it's very varied.

This is why Finubar has no rules nor existing model on the tabletop.

[Baron]

Some of the big boys like Nagash are in the grey area. As Lizzy says - CA has the call here with GW. Nagash never had TT rules back in the day for the same reasons CA hasnt got some of the others (The OP characters - Like actual Sigmar for example).

They are trying to keep the power level within scope and avoid anything AoS, flirting with the end times events, so it's unlikely we will see anything beyond 'Belakor at the PRECIPICE of godhood' - which means Arkhan the Black is close to Nagash as we will get.

Having said that they completely invented Cathay and Kislevs rosters, or near enough. There's no telling.

If I was a betting man I'd say they will do as they have said. Fill out the game to make it the definitive Warhammer experience up to and including 8th edition. They are very close to that already.

[Lady MacBeth]

Probably cause he doesn't really do anything but let his council rule while he roams the world?

[ope84]

Nagash had table top rules in the 4th edition army book.

[Reverend Belial]

As a previous commenter has said, Finubar isn't a general. He delegates military matters to Tyrion, and dedicates himself to politics and personal pursuits.

[Toblm]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

Hello reader!

My question then is, why not Finubar? What's the reason for his absence?

Because Tyrion is in.

[Baron]

Originally posted by ope84:

Nagash had table top rules in the 4th edition army book.

Yeah sorry just woke up so I wasn't clear.

If they not in 8th they in grey area.

Todbringer is at this point more likely as he is squarely in the early editions as I recall, whereas everyone will want Nagash to be super OP God of Death from later editions - which he actually would have to be because Azhag already has the crown. It messes with their scope.

4th ed, one book, no mount, pre vampire counts nagash WOULD make for a fun campaign, I just think it's on the unlikely end of the spectrum.

[Sauske]

Similar to the reasons why Throt, Ikit, Queek, and Skrolk are faction leaders in the games. They are not the actual leaders of their respective factions, just powerful combatants, heroes, and generals.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

Originally posted by zefyris:

The real answer is that this current generation's Phoenix king is no fighter. He used to be an ambassador and greatly contributed in restauring the ties between the High Elves and the other orders factions that were cut for millenias. Including dwarves. That's why the previous Phoenix King nominated him as his successor, because he felt that what the HE needed the most in this day and age was someone who knew the world well, was well respected by their allies and wasn't isolationist.

Interestingly, in reverse, the Everqueen is usually no fighter and doesn't lead army. But this generation's Everqueen has been very proactive in that area. So the current generation on that point is reversed.

Regardless of the Everqueens, it's worth noting that only a part of the previous Kings were fighters. Their worst Phoenix king (Caledor II) was one of the better fighter as well, while some of their best never fought on a battlefield. Aenarion was one of the most powerful fighter that the warhammer world has ever seen, but that is not the case for every Phoenix king, at all, it's very varied.

This is why Finubar has no rules nor existing model on the tabletop.

That's really cool, thanks! I suppose it's just surprising that there could be a purely political leader in the Warhammer world, when it seems like every even remotely important figure in the universe has to kick so much ass that their toes forever smell of poop. I don't really know anything about Finubar's background or lore, except that he was really not fussed about Alarielle's true love being her consort. I'll need to do some reading about him, he sounds pretty interesting.

[Reverend Belial]

Originally posted by Super Cosmic Space Magnet:

That's really cool, thanks! I suppose it's just surprising that there could be a purely political leader in the Warhammer world, when it seems like every even remotely important figure in the universe has to kick so much ass that their toes forever smell of poop. I don't really know anything about Finubar's background or lore, except that he was really not fussed about Alarielle's true love being her consort. I'll need to do some reading about him, he sounds pretty interesting.

He was a fairly prolific explorer and adventurer before becoming king, it's where he got the moniker of Seafarer.

[Super Cosmic Space Magnet]

.... I just read on the wiki about what Finubar did during The End Times. Bloody heck. That's... Impressively lame. The writer must've really hated elves lmao

[Psychedelic Adventurer]

Originally posted by Baron:

Some of the big boys like Nagash are in the grey area. As Lizzy says - CA has the call here with GW. Nagash never had TT rules back in the day for the same reasons CA hasnt got some of the others (The OP characters - Like actual Sigmar for example).

They are trying to keep the power level within scope and avoid anything AoS, flirting with the end times events, so it's unlikely we will see anything beyond 'Belakor at the PRECIPICE of godhood' - which means Arkhan the Black is close to Nagash as we will get.

Having said that they completely invented Cathay and Kislevs rosters, or near enough. There's no telling.

If I was a betting man I'd say they will do as they have said. Fill out the game to make it the definitive Warhammer experience up to and including 8th edition. They are very close to that already.

Basically this.

Except that I’m confident that Nagash will make it into the game eventually. Look to the wh2 mod for how they could do it. In the case of Sigma however, you are absolutely correct.

Also, another caveat. WOC wasn’t supposed to a playable faction in wh1. So lords like Archaon were nerfed significantly to make him balanced for player factions. Nagash represents a meeting of this old design philosophy, with the new.