A Wheel of Time Mod would be so great

[Truen]

Aes Sedai, Warders, the flamming Dark One and his factions of Chosen--all the tools are in this game to make every unit in the Wheel of Time and more. Man I'd pay hundreds of dollars for a quality WoT mod on the Warhammer engine!

[SBA77]

You know it's interesting, I don't think I have ever seen a total conversion mods like that for any of the TWW games despite how plentiful they were for previous Total War games.

I guess TWW modders are more interested in adding things from the lore that are missing, making the game more lore-friendly or making minor changes/adding things that they think would be cool.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Its not allowed to mod in other franchises

[SBA77]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

Its not allowed to mod in other franchises

Ah so that explains it.

[Ysthrall]

I did suggest WoT as another setting for the next fantasy IP...

(after Warmachine and Exalted, before The Malazan Book of the Fallen.)

Given that it has:
Multiple cultures, each containing multiple nations, all of which can feasibly be at war with each other.
Starting areas of ruins.
OP LL, magic items, and magic
At least one major antagonist faction
At least 2 off-map invasions in the best traditions of TW :)

What it would need would be some pretty careful balancing and improved diplomacy, and it would suffer from the fairly small number of races in play compared to WH (no, you cannot play an Ogier faction....)

[Elitewrecker PT]

[burningmime]

Nope, Redwall.

[SBA77]

Originally posted by burningmime:

Nope, Redwall.

I think I'm also on the Warmachine/Hordes train, if they can make it work that is.

[Ysthrall]

Originally posted by SBA77:

Originally posted by burningmime:

Nope, Redwall.

I think I'm also on the Warmachine/Hordes train, if they can make it work that is.

It does, as a setting, have all the features that made WH a good IP for TW, while being distinctly different.

[SBA77]

Originally posted by Ysthrall:

Originally posted by SBA77:

I think I'm also on the Warmachine/Hordes train, if they can make it work that is.

It does, as a setting, have all the features that made WH a good IP for TW, while being distinctly different.

But what about the army compositions though? All the Warmachines armies are built around having small forces of powerful mechs, I think, while the Hordes armies are more traditional and to the size of armies you would see in Warhammer or other similar tabletop wargames.

[KellyR]

It's hard to think of other properties that would work well as Total War games tbh. In my mind both WoT and LotR are too homogeneous, not enough truly distinct factions.

War40k maybe, but that's an old argument.

Just thinking of like, fantasy novels and such I've read, they're all largely homogeneous, wouldn't give enough faction variety. The Belgariad has some terrible surface-deep differences based on stereotypes of historical civilizations, but they're all on the "good guys" side of things, and the "bad guys" are relatively monolithic. And frankly none of the "good guys" civilizaions were really deep enough to work.

The Shannara books are basically just "Elves, humans, and irrelevant hangers-on".

Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn really only has two factions plus "cat-elves".

ASoIaF is all "knights, knights everywhere" unless you leave the continent where all the main action happens.

The First Law series is fairly limited, you have the viking-ish northmen, the empire, and the "totally not a stereotypical evil Islamic/Persian faction" and that's pretty much it.

The Stormlight Archive is inventive, but there's still not a ton of obvious difference between the human factions.

The Sword of Truth doesn't deserve a game even if it were suited for it which it's not.

Riftwar is another "Oops, all knights!" thing, and the whole Tsurani thing doesn't really fix it.

The Codex Alera is "Oops, all Romans" (Even if it's a brilliant series).

Will Wight's Cradle series might sort of work, but it would only be because it's so wide open for possible factions--CA would have to do a lot of making stuff up, basically.

I think most literary properties are likely to be like that. It's hard to write a book that includes umpteen distinct factions. It's only the fact that Warhammer was designed to be a game that makes it work. It's got the diversity of factions because that was always a primary goal, gameplay and variety, far above story.

So probably would have to look at other games for good candidates. Most D&D settings wouldn't work well, but Eberron might?

[Ysthrall]

Originally posted by SBA77:

Originally posted by Ysthrall:

It does, as a setting, have all the features that made WH a good IP for TW, while being distinctly different.

But what about the army compositions though? All the Warmachines armies are built around having small forces of powerful mechs, I think, while the Hordes armies are more traditional and to the size of armies you would see in Warhammer or other similar tabletop wargames.

Both Warmachine and Hordes work around having a "battlegroup" of robots/monsters under the control of the lord. Having a large stable of (overall weaker than WH) LL solves a lack of those, and they you could trivially go to a battlegroup of 5 to 10 such, with units (infantry, cavalry, artillery, etc) filling the stack. It's sold as a smaller game, and it does run as a smaller game than Warhammer, typically, but that's a high bar and there's no reason why not to make big armies. Further discussion of IP below.

Originally posted by KellyR:

It's hard to think of other properties that would work well as Total War games tbh. In my mind both WoT and LotR are too homogeneous, not enough truly distinct factions.

ASoIaF is all "knights, knights everywhere" unless you leave the continent where all the main action happens.

The Codex Alera is "Oops, all Romans" (Even if it's a brilliant series).

Will Wight's Cradle series might sort of work, but it would only be because it's so wide open for possible factions--CA would have to do a lot of making stuff up, basically.

I think most literary properties are likely to be like that. It's hard to write a book that includes umpteen distinct factions. It's only the fact that Warhammer was designed to be a game that makes it work. It's got the diversity of factions because that was always a primary goal, gameplay and variety, far above story.

(i have discussed this on many threads, my observations are below)

Looking at the Codex Alera as well:
Aleran armies are yes, all Romans to some extent (not in and of itself a bad thing). With additional elemental powers by the ton. Additional forces could include:
Marat forces: Beastmaster feral elves in a half a dozen flavours, not a huge variation but some possibilities
Canim forces: Big wolfmen, using blood magic. Powerful, disciplined, several castes, and possible with Aleran auxilleries.
Icemen forces: (okay, one of the weaker options) Tribal armies of angry yeti using ice magic.
Vord: You know what, it's the Zerg. They are OP for the setting.
Possible, restricted in races compared to WH, but then almost every option is...

Game of Thrones TW has been suggested.... which is possible, though not in the time/area of the setting covered by the books/tv series. Panning back and east a bit, and back about 500 years, would allow for a campaign covering the Century of Blood: The Fall of Valyria, the rise of the Dothraki, the 11 Free Cities, feuding states of Westeros, the burning of the Sarthori, and more. Lots of small states all beating the stuffing out of each other. Would need a diplomacy upgrade nevertheless.

Lord of the Rings TW has also been suggested a lot. Again, cover a different area: The War of the Jewels (in the Silmarillion) would work: lots of small states all fighting each other, including the few good vs good conflicts in the setting.

My personal suggestions for adapting other fantasy IPs would be:

Exalted (RPG setting), lots of magic, lots of overpowered heroes, several flavours of states, all manner of strange spirits/gods interfereing, with a large dash of beastmen/fae/lizardmen/dead things. Tech levels from spears to magic mecha.

Wheel of Time (books, maybe TV series); Again, lots of small states, over powered heroes and magic, slightly light on the other races (Trollocs, a few Ogier), but with the option of the classic TW move, the off-map invasion (Seanchan, Aiel).

Malazan Book of the Fallen (books): much empire building by crazed warlords and wandering heroes, many city states trying to kill each other, all manner of crazed races/gods/spirits/WTF is that.... If anything is ever declared extinct, it'll be rolling in shortly with an army. A surprising amount of different races....

However what you want to live up to Warhammer is a setting with:
Diverse races...
...each fielding large and diverse armies
Lots of sides fighting each other
Opportunities for extra content
OP heroes and magic items
Something distinctly different from Warhammer to avoid being a reskin....

Given that this is quite a tall order for anything other than a tabletop wargame, I'd suggest.... a different tabletop wargame. The Iron Kingdoms, aka Warmachine/Hordes.

This has the following features suitable for inclusion in a TW game:

1) 19+ different armies, often with multiple subfactions, most of them mutually hostile for a a campaign map
2) Each of these has a huge range of minis, so lots of design work and balancing has already been done
3) Given the release of this setting over 20 years, it is provable viable to start with a bunch of 4 major powers, and slot in minor ones everywhere.
4) With a tech level from spears to magicly-controlled steampunk battle robots, incorporating mad science, mutating blight, transhumanist cyborgs and geomancy.... there's a lot of diversity.
5) No shortage of OP heroes, magic items, and the like....
6) The control mechanisms for the warjacks (robots) and warbeasts (monsters) would be a focus/fury mechanic run by the player, a balancing act of power allocation/subtraction within the battle, and something very different form the easy command of the warhammer setting.
7) The storyline for it is about finished, so the IP may be available :)

[SBA77]

Originally posted by Ysthrall:

Originally posted by SBA77:

But what about the army compositions though? All the Warmachines armies are built around having small forces of powerful mechs, I think, while the Hordes armies are more traditional and to the size of armies you would see in Warhammer or other similar tabletop wargames.

Both Warmachine and Hordes work around having a "battlegroup" of robots/monsters under the control of the lord. Having a large stable of (overall weaker than WH) LL solves a lack of those, and they you could trivially go to a battlegroup of 5 to 10 such, with units (infantry, cavalry, artillery, etc) filling the stack. It's sold as a smaller game, and it does run as a smaller game than Warhammer, typically, but that's a high bar and there's no reason why not to make big armies.

Well hey if they make it I'll be happy. I particularly like the Hordes of Everblight personally.

[KellyR]

Originally posted by Ysthrall:

Originally posted by SBA77:

But what about the army compositions though? All the Warmachines armies are built around having small forces of powerful mechs, I think, while the Hordes armies are more traditional and to the size of armies you would see in Warhammer or other similar tabletop wargames.

Both Warmachine and Hordes work around having a "battlegroup" of robots/monsters under the control of the lord. Having a large stable of (overall weaker than WH) LL solves a lack of those, and they you could trivially go to a battlegroup of 5 to 10 such, with units (infantry, cavalry, artillery, etc) filling the stack. It's sold as a smaller game, and it does run as a smaller game than Warhammer, typically, but that's a high bar and there's no reason why not to make big armies. Further discussion of IP below.

Originally posted by KellyR:

It's hard to think of other properties that would work well as Total War games tbh. In my mind both WoT and LotR are too homogeneous, not enough truly distinct factions.

ASoIaF is all "knights, knights everywhere" unless you leave the continent where all the main action happens.

The Codex Alera is "Oops, all Romans" (Even if it's a brilliant series).

Will Wight's Cradle series might sort of work, but it would only be because it's so wide open for possible factions--CA would have to do a lot of making stuff up, basically.

I think most literary properties are likely to be like that. It's hard to write a book that includes umpteen distinct factions. It's only the fact that Warhammer was designed to be a game that makes it work. It's got the diversity of factions because that was always a primary goal, gameplay and variety, far above story.

(i have discussed this on many threads, my observations are below)

Looking at the Codex Alera as well:
Aleran armies are yes, all Romans to some extent (not in and of itself a bad thing). With additional elemental powers by the ton. Additional forces could include:
Marat forces: Beastmaster feral elves in a half a dozen flavours, not a huge variation but some possibilities
Canim forces: Big wolfmen, using blood magic. Powerful, disciplined, several castes, and possible with Aleran auxilleries.
Icemen forces: (okay, one of the weaker options) Tribal armies of angry yeti using ice magic.
Vord: You know what, it's the Zerg. They are OP for the setting.
Possible, restricted in races compared to WH, but then almost every option is...

Game of Thrones TW has been suggested.... which is possible, though not in the time/area of the setting covered by the books/tv series. Panning back and east a bit, and back about 500 years, would allow for a campaign covering the Century of Blood: The Fall of Valyria, the rise of the Dothraki, the 11 Free Cities, feuding states of Westeros, the burning of the Sarthori, and more. Lots of small states all beating the stuffing out of each other. Would need a diplomacy upgrade nevertheless.

Lord of the Rings TW has also been suggested a lot. Again, cover a different area: The War of the Jewels (in the Silmarillion) would work: lots of small states all fighting each other, including the few good vs good conflicts in the setting.

My personal suggestions for adapting other fantasy IPs would be:

Exalted (RPG setting), lots of magic, lots of overpowered heroes, several flavours of states, all manner of strange spirits/gods interfereing, with a large dash of beastmen/fae/lizardmen/dead things. Tech levels from spears to magic mecha.

Wheel of Time (books, maybe TV series); Again, lots of small states, over powered heroes and magic, slightly light on the other races (Trollocs, a few Ogier), but with the option of the classic TW move, the off-map invasion (Seanchan, Aiel).

Malazan Book of the Fallen (books): much empire building by crazed warlords and wandering heroes, many city states trying to kill each other, all manner of crazed races/gods/spirits/WTF is that.... If anything is ever declared extinct, it'll be rolling in shortly with an army. A surprising amount of different races....

However what you want to live up to Warhammer is a setting with:
Diverse races...
...each fielding large and diverse armies
Lots of sides fighting each other
Opportunities for extra content
OP heroes and magic items
Something distinctly different from Warhammer to avoid being a reskin....

Given that this is quite a tall order for anything other than a tabletop wargame, I'd suggest.... a different tabletop wargame. The Iron Kingdoms, aka Warmachine/Hordes.

This has the following features suitable for inclusion in a TW game:

1) 19+ different armies, often with multiple subfactions, most of them mutually hostile for a a campaign map
2) Each of these has a huge range of minis, so lots of design work and balancing has already been done
3) Given the release of this setting over 20 years, it is provable viable to start with a bunch of 4 major powers, and slot in minor ones everywhere.
4) With a tech level from spears to magicly-controlled steampunk battle robots, incorporating mad science, mutating blight, transhumanist cyborgs and geomancy.... there's a lot of diversity.
5) No shortage of OP heroes, magic items, and the like....
6) The control mechanisms for the warjacks (robots) and warbeasts (monsters) would be a focus/fury mechanic run by the player, a balancing act of power allocation/subtraction within the battle, and something very different form the easy command of the warhammer setting.
7) The storyline for it is about finished, so the IP may be available :)

Yeah, that's what I mean, like, sure WoT has a bunch of different nations, but if they all use similar troop types and military doctrines, then they're not really different, they're just reskins. Sort of like most of Catholic Europe is a bit samey in Medieval games. More like different Empire subfactions than the kind of differences we see between major factions in the Warhammer games.

I could maybe see Exalted working, but I mean, much of it is dominated by the Scarlet Empress' empire, and they're fairly homogeneous.

But yeah, I feel like you'd have to look at wargames to have enough variety to justify a Total War adaptation.

Though I still think Eberron could possibly work. Set it during the Last War, before the Day of Mourning, and you've got the five nations of Khorvaire that actually have noticeable differences, Breland with their industry (Moving cities, magitech equipment, bear cavalry), Aundair with their traditional D&D wilderness focus (Big on Rangers, they have the big magical University so they have more wizards than other factions, etc), Thrane with its knights and paladins and generally feudal structure (So serf levies, like Brettonia), Karrnath with their undead legions, and Cyre with their focus on the manufactured Warforged legions.

Plus an Elven state carved out by a force of elven mercenaries from another continent who were brought in by the five nations and then decided they wanted to live there, the Hobgoblin ruled military junta state of Darguun, the "Monster Preserve" of Droaam ruled by three powerful Hags, the tribal Halflings riding dinosaurs from the Talenta Plains, the merchant kingdoms and pirate of the Lhazaar Principalities, the Gnomes of Zilargo, etc. All of them would field armies that would be clearly distinct from each other.

[Atomsk]

Wheel of Time was a terrible show.

[Xenos]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

Its not allowed to mod in other franchises

there are also no tools to design a new map, so it would be kinda pointless.