Tzeentch nerfs overdone

[Alexandus]

Doubling the barrier replenishment time, nerfing the Warpflame debuff *and* the Arcane Surge army ability? Way too much nerfbat at one time, and balancing by the small percent that play multiplayer is a good way to kill the game for the non-1%

[drakobn]

Arcane Surge didn't work before the nerf and still doesn't so can you really call it a nerf lol
I'm not surprised that they nerfed the barrier since it's pretty crazy powerful, but yeah I would have preferred if they didn't because it was fun.

[Alexandus]

Which shows you how much forethought went into this 'balance' change. Seriously, other companies gently change things patch by patch to tweak balance - doubling or halving entire stats is a sledgehammer where a scalpel is needed.

Changed my review to negative - let's voice our displeasure, fellow changers of the ways.

[The Void Boy]

I would've been fine if they just increased it from 15 seconds to 20 seconds. Straight doubling it is just too much.

Before the patch, T'zeentch really wasn't that powerful. Most of the power behind the faction in battle was just Kairos Fateweaver himself. Even without the infinite magic exploit, none of your other armies could come close to him. Not to mention the exalted lords of change were actually worse than their herald counterparts.

If I were designing the T'zeentch part of the patch I would've done 3 main things.
1, I'd fix the glean magic spell and arcane surge so that they actually do their intended affects.

2, I'd fix the infinite magic exploit.

3, I'd buff Exalted Lords of Change with a greater arcane conduit and I'd give them 3 mutually-exclusive skills: one that buffs the barrier in the army, one that buffs their ranged potential, and one that would give the lord and every hero in the army the Mastery of the Elemental Winds ability.

That I think would've moved T'zeentch from C-tier to B-tier. Instead CA decided to move T'zeentch from C-tier (in slight need of a buff) to D-tier (in heavy need of a buff). You should never have any faction in S-tier or D-tier. So Ogres got moved from S-tier to A-tier and depite the buff I don't think Nurgle is out of D-tier yet. So now there are 2 factions in D-tier.

So before the patch there were 2 unbalanced factions. Now after the patch, they have 2 unbalanced factions. Not to mention Slaanesh and Khorne threaten to move up an entire tier once collision and charge bonus are fixed. So once that happens it possible Khorne will hit S-tier. So the balance is technically even worse than before.

[Hieronymous]

Originally posted by Alexandus:

Doubling the barrier replenishment time, nerfing the Warpflame debuff *and* the Arcane Surge army ability? Way too much nerfbat at one time, and balancing by the small percent that play multiplayer is a good way to kill the game for the non-1%

Fear not.

All according to plan.

[Atomsk]

Good thing I already beat Tzeentch on very hard, what an un-fun faction to play.

[brownacs]

Originally posted by The Void Boy:

I would've been fine if they just increased it from 15 seconds to 20 seconds. Straight doubling it is just too much.

Before the patch, T'zeentch really wasn't that powerful. Most of the power behind the faction in battle was just Kairos Fateweaver himself. Even without the infinite magic exploit, none of your other armies could come close to him. Not to mention the exalted lords of change were actually worse than their herald counterparts.

If I were designing the T'zeentch part of the patch I would've done 3 main things.
1, I'd fix the glean magic spell and arcane surge so that they actually do their intended affects.

2, I'd fix the infinite magic exploit.

3, I'd buff Exalted Lords of Change with a greater arcane conduit and I'd give them 3 mutually-exclusive skills: one that buffs the barrier in the army, one that buffs their ranged potential, and one that would give the lord and every hero in the army the Mastery of the Elemental Winds ability.

That I think would've moved T'zeentch from C-tier to B-tier. Instead CA decided to move T'zeentch from C-tier (in slight need of a buff) to D-tier (in heavy need of a buff). You should never have any faction in S-tier or D-tier. So Ogres got moved from S-tier to A-tier and depite the buff I don't think Nurgle is out of D-tier yet. So now there are 2 factions in D-tier.

So before the patch there were 2 unbalanced factions. Now after the patch, they have 2 unbalanced factions. Not to mention Slaanesh and Khorne threaten to move up an entire tier once collision and charge bonus are fixed. So once that happens it possible Khorne will hit S-tier. So the balance is technically even worse than before.

Agree with all of this. Exalted LoCs need a pretty big buff to be the equal of High Elven Archmages and they should really be superior. I'd also give them access to all the standard lores (not per character but a la the High Elven mages or the Empire wizards).

[Maximum997]

Originally posted by Alexandus:

nerfing Arcane Surge army ability?

But it didnt work lol

does it even work now lol?

Originally posted by The Void Boy:

Before the patch, T'zeentch really wasn't that powerful. Most of the power behind the faction in battle was just Kairos Fateweaver himself. Even without the infinite magic exploit, none of your other armies could come close to him. Not to mention the exalted lords of change were actually worse than their herald counterparts.

Cycle charging with chaos knights\soulgrinders\disks\greater daemons was absurdly OP

[brownacs]

Originally posted by maximum997:

But it didnt work lol

does it even work now lol?

I've not tested it but word on the street is no it still does not work.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Originally posted by maximum997:

Originally posted by Alexandus:

nerfing Arcane Surge army ability?

But it didnt work lol

does it even work now lol?

Originally posted by The Void Boy:

Before the patch, T'zeentch really wasn't that powerful. Most of the power behind the faction in battle was just Kairos Fateweaver himself. Even without the infinite magic exploit, none of your other armies could come close to him. Not to mention the exalted lords of change were actually worse than their herald counterparts.

Cycle charging with chaos knights\soulgrinders\disks\greater daemons was absurdly OP

Hovering over the winds hourglass says its effects when it's active. Not so easy to tell if they're actually working.

[Zane87]

Originally posted by drakobn:

Arcane Surge didn't work before the nerf and still doesn't so can you really call it a nerf lol
I'm not surprised that they nerfed the barrier since it's pretty crazy powerful, but yeah I would have preferred if they didn't because it was fun.

Honestly, I'm fine with the barrier nerf because it was super exploitable.

Just wish they would have added better campaign replenishment as an offset, cause while barrier made manual battles very easy, low replenishment made auto battles extremely punishing. More balance there would have been a better approach imo

[Orfin]

Kinda funny they nerfed tzeentch because their unit roster already seemed pretty bad to me. Took me several attempts to beat the last battle and Kairos did all the job with 27,000 damage value

[Ashardalon]

it wasnt exploitable
it was usable
you just needed your opponent to not trap you
because as soon as the barrier died you had basically no hp below it

[Nazukao]

Yes CA nerfed Tzeentch but they are happy about Khorne

[drakobn]

On the plus side I've found that the update to unit responsiveness lets you pull units out of combat much easier to give them a break to recharge barrier.
I'd definitely be down for a mod that undoes this particular nerf though.

[Sauske]

Originally posted by The Void Boy:

I would've been fine if they just increased it from 15 seconds to 20 seconds. Straight doubling it is just too much.

Before the patch, T'zeentch really wasn't that powerful. Most of the power behind the faction in battle was just Kairos Fateweaver himself. Even without the infinite magic exploit, none of your other armies could come close to him. Not to mention the exalted lords of change were actually worse than their herald counterparts.

Yeah, doubling the barrier replenishment delay seems a bit too much, 20 seconds would have been ok.

But I can´t agree Tzeentch wasn´t that powerful. He has pretty damn good units all around, and the magic is great. Also, how are exalted lords of change worse than the heralds? They are very solid in melee against most things, and are as good spellcasters - now actually better with the greater arcane conduit - as the heralds.