Ogre kingdoms. Awful faction with awesome units.

[Maximum997]

Their units are just super duper strong, some of them even OPAF.

But faction mechanics...

1) Contracts.
Should i explain why 500 gold for killing a guy half map away is not good? I did it once and just ignored them for the rest of the game.
2) Camps.
They are just cities that you can place where you want. But you should pay for garrison, they are absurdly expensive to upgrade, and you should always start them from t1. And after defeat you cant rebuild them like average city, all your investments just gone. You cant just occupie t4 city like other races, you should build it from t1, and it is damn slow and expensive. So after some expanding you will found that your t5 camp is miles away from your position and you need tons of money and time to build another one.
3) Meat. 99% of time i forget that it exists. I just update +20% movement bonus every 10 turns and thats all.
4) Tech three.
It is just garbage. All technologies are trash minor bonuses. 5% money from contracts? WOW it is 525 instead of 25. Only good technologies are camp limit and -50% gnollbar upkeep that makes them free in camps.
5) Lords. Unit bonuses are just meh. Like 14 armor and charge bonus for gorgers is pretty much nothing. As LL you have slow fatas and awful mage that does pretty much nothing cool. With 100 wom limit i say good by to lore of maw.
6) Magic. Lore of great maw is crap. You have heals, you have damage, you have buffs debuffs. Cool. But OMG all magic is so overpriced.
7) Heroes. Mages have no armor, no fast mounts. Compare them to vampires or scink priests. Mages are crap. Atlest they have lore of fire.
Hunters are good. Ranged atacks, awesome mounts and good bonuses.
8) Sieges. They have no walled settlements? and It is good. But why they start with 0 supplies? Or other races start with 1000.
9) Their ecomony is kinda crap. 2000 from t5 camp, 150 from city. +trading. Looks not so good.

So i think their units should be nerfed and some mechanics should be buffed.

[Kain]

Автор сообщения: maximum997

Автор сообщения: zacharyb

Ya with how they are now there isn't really much reason to use Gnoblars unless you really need the money, or I guess against some ranged heavy factions some meatshields might be useful.

In early game they are pretty good to to take enemy major cities just with stealth caping both victory points

Автор сообщения: SBA77

Yeah I heard about that too. Hopefully they get their ♥♥♥♥ together. This release was not
as awful as many others games recently but it's still pretty bad and shouldn't be acceptable.

Magic was nerfed
Traits was nerfed
Pretty much everything was nerfed.

May be this is the new trend. WH2 had tons of over the top things, races, lords and mechanics. It wasnt balanced, but it made game more fun. For example Ikit was absurdly strong and OPAF but damn he was fun to play

power creep was a huge turn off for me in tww2

[madracc00n]

Kinda true.They are easy to play and op in battle,but feel kinda meh long term.

[SBA77]

Автор сообщения: maximum997

Автор сообщения: SBA77

Yeah I heard about that too. Hopefully they get their ♥♥♥♥ together. This release was not
as awful as many others games recently but it's still pretty bad and shouldn't be acceptable.

Magic was nerfed
Traits was nerfed
Pretty much everything was nerfed.

May be this is the new trend. WH2 had tons of over the top things, races, lords and mechanics. It wasnt balanced, but it made game more fun. For example Ikit was absurdly strong and OPAF but damn he was fun to play

Heh, I guess you could think of these changes as a bit of reset then. Might do the game some good if that were the case.

[SBA77]

Автор сообщения: maximum997

1) Contracts.
Should i explain why 500 gold for killing a guy half map away is not good? I did it once and just ignored them for the rest of the game.

Just saw a video on this and had some new ideas on contracts. Maybe they should make it that you don't actually declare war when a contract forces you to attack another faction, and just make you hostile to them until your contract is over, after which you got neutral again. After all you're being mercenaries by doing that, and it's nothing personal, it's just a job.

[Maximum997]

Автор сообщения: SBA77

Автор сообщения: maximum997

1) Contracts.
Should i explain why 500 gold for killing a guy half map away is not good? I did it once and just ignored them for the rest of the game.

Just saw a video on this and had some new ideas on this. Maybe they should make it that you don't actually declare war when a contract forces you to attack another faction, and just make you hostile to them until your contract is over, after which you got neutral again. After all you being mercenaries by doing that, and it's nothing personal, it's just a job.

Yea. It is really cool idea.

[edjenoh]

The camp thing is annoying. You have to put absurdly expensive stacks in there, and then they can just get attacked by four stacks at times. There is some learning curve also. Because the game suggests these as forward camps, whereas you benefit a lot more from them as capitols that are within your kingdom, due to their high income compared to 3 tiered settlements.

[Maximum997]

Автор сообщения: edjenoh

The camp thing is annoying. You have to put absurdly expensive stacks in there, and then they can just get attacked by four stacks at times. There is some learning curve also. Because the game suggests these as forward camps, whereas you benefit a lot more from them as capitols that are within your kingdom, due to their high income compared to 3 tiered settlements.

I found the best technology for ogre kingdoms - -50% upkeep for gnollbars. In camps they become free.

[Poljanan]

They should have copied TW3K contracts where the rewards you get increase the more you enemy armies you defeat or settlements you capture from your target, instead of contracts giving you a flat reward.

[SBA77]

Автор сообщения: maximum997

Автор сообщения: SBA77

Just saw a video on this and had some new ideas on this. Maybe they should make it that you don't actually declare war when a contract forces you to attack another faction, and just make you hostile to them until your contract is over, after which you got neutral again. After all you being mercenaries by doing that, and it's nothing personal, it's just a job.

Yea. It is really cool idea.

It might be a bit too complicated for TW or incompatible with the engine but I think this[eu4.paradoxwikis.com] would be a good thing to base the whole contract and mercenary mechanic off of.

[Ferreus the Umbral Arrow]

Автор сообщения: maximum997

Their units are just super duper strong, some of them even OPAF.

But faction mechanics...

1) Contracts.
Should i explain why 500 gold for killing a guy half map away is not good? I did it once and just ignored them for the rest of the game.
2) Camps.
They are just cities that you can place where you want. But you should pay for garrison, they are absurdly expensive to upgrade, and you should always start them from t1. And after defeat you cant rebuild them like average city, all your investments just gone. You cant just occupie t4 city like other races, you should build it from t1, and it is damn slow and expensive. So after some expanding you will found that your t5 camp is miles away from your position and you need tons of money and time to build another one.
3) Meat. 99% of time i forget that it exists. I just update +20% movement bonus every 10 turns and thats all.
4) Tech three.
It is just garbage. All technologies are trash minor bonuses. 5% money from contracts? WOW it is 525 instead of 25. Only good technologies are camp limit and -50% gnollbar upkeep that makes them free in camps.
5) Lords. Unit bonuses are just meh. Like 14 armor and charge bonus for gorgers is pretty much nothing. As LL you have slow fatas and awful mage that does pretty much nothing cool. With 100 wom limit i say good by to lore of maw.
6) Magic. Lore of great maw is crap. You have heals, you have damage, you have buffs debuffs. Cool. But OMG all magic is so overpriced.
7) Heroes. Mages have no armor, no fast mounts. Compare them to vampires or scink priests. Mages are crap. Atlest they have lore of fire.
Hunters are good. Ranged atacks, awesome mounts and good bonuses.
8) Sieges. They have no walled settlements? and It is good. But why they start with 0 supplies? Or other races start with 1000.
9) Their ecomony is kinda crap. 2000 from t5 camp, 150 from city. +trading. Looks not so good.

So i think their units should be nerfed and some mechanics should be buffed.

Wasn't going to reply to this, but eh, bored.
I disagree with most of what you say.
Faction is fine. Iron blaster or whatever needs it's accuracy nerfed, the ogres need to have their mass reduced until it resembles Trolls from WH2. Right now they are all dread saurians the way they move through units.
Maybe a slight nerf to melee defense for some units.

What is wrong with the Ogres is Skragg is boring, Greasus is boring. Skragg looks cool but does nothing. Greasus looks like disabled santa, but actually does well in duels....if he can catch things.
They need cooler legendary lords. It's the same problem the dark elves have in 2. Except the lords are cool, their bonuses aren't, and start positions suck.
But I personally don't care that much. Maybe make their spells do more dmg or cost less. There one other thing I agree on.

[Maximum997]

Автор сообщения: Rosa

oh dont worry, CA is nerfingf the units too because the 5 people who play MP are crying about it.

They can just increase the cost of OP units and add cap.

[SoulHunterWirriam]

1. This will 100% be reworked. It's so low impact that you can basically ignore it.

2. Camps could be done better but they are useful for boosting your economy and recruitment. Greasus can get 8 camps IIRC. Have 1 spare for meat replenishment and the rest will net you a 84% boost to money buildings. Costs and distance aren't that big of an issue IMO because you have that global recruitment reducing rite and big sacking bonuses. In my first Greasus campaign I was in the negative for dozens of turns but made enough cash with sacking that I could upgrade my camps and cities until I was in the green again.

3. It would be more noticeable if you could spend meat on more things. Right now you spend meat on one of the 4 maw rituals, pre battle feast and the army upkeep (which gets reduced by 5 thanks to a tech). If you run low on meat just put 1 camp and forget about the mechanic for dozens of turns.

4. That's a flaw for every race. Some of them are useful. For example the 25% bonus ambush chance (but ambush seems a little buggy lately, had a 95%ambush spoiled 7 times in a row). Nurgle has a particulary awful tech tree. +15 growth in certain terrain types is awful.

5. Red skills will probably be adjusted once the combined map hits. Compare 15% physical resistance many rank 7 infantry get to +8 leadership. It's a big difference. Greasus needs more attack range and better responsiveness. He gets stuck easily, is slow to react and often seems unable to reach enemies with his short attack range. On the rare occasions he gets into combat he can put decent work. Especially against large enemies. IDK about Skraag since I didn't play him yet.

6. It would be great if they reduced the costs a little. I think reducing the cost by 1-2 winds of magic on most spells will be enough.

7.IMO heroes are decent. Not lizardmen tier decent but powerful enough to pull their weight. My biggest beef is that there is no melee focused hero (ogre bruiser) with a mournfang/rhinox mount. Same for tyrants. Hope Ghark adds those as a high level option for lords and heroes (lets be honest ogres are missing some noticeable stuff and Ghark would be perfect for a monster focused DLC).

8. IDK but the minor settlements in my recent campaign ( with t1 or t2 garrison buildings) had the usual 1000 supplies. Haven't fought a defensive battle in a city with a higher tier garrison or camp battle.

9. I would argue that they have one of the better economies. It's just very reliant on camps and sacking so you will see the first effects in the mid game.

[SoulHunterWirriam]

Also forgot to add: why are ogre lords the only ones in the game that need to put 3 points in their melee line? Other lords only need 2 points.

[SoulHunterWirriam]

Автор сообщения: Gamefever

I like the Camps idea, I dont like each one of them starting at level 1 building all the time, maybe in the future there will be a tech to make them start at higher level.
But its pretty cool that you get your own settlement building that you can place anywhere on the map not a bad idea that.

They could borrow that mechanic from the current Beastmen. Pay hefty sums of money for perma upgrades to your camps.

[VoiD]

Автор сообщения: matlajs

All the races( played all of them except Cathay ) have a 90% of tech trees, skill trees absolutely boring and worthless to invest points in.

Ogre camp garrison can't heal - as Black arcs don't have any base replenishment on neutral/ hostile territory - it is definetely possible- but they won't do it for.....a reason? can't imagine what.

Building schemes are boring and trash - almost everything on T3- with exception of highest tier units, where last 2 tiers of building provide copy paste bonuses of + recruitment slot / rank.

some of the heroes back in wh2 have had option to perform more than 1 action while embeded in army( rune masters / most of legendary ones) - don't see any reason, why they didn't bothered apply that to this game until they add other heroes which will seize that role.

There is just so many copy paste things, without that much faction exclusive things when you look at it objectively.

So overall, not just the Ogres, even regardless of bugs and boring main campaign, i can't see any inventive progress up from wh2, rather degradation.
Addition of more mechanics to each race is perhaps good first stepp, but then again, they need to be not this bland and do almost the same, re-skinned thing.

I've played Khorne and Cathay so far, both of them had some VERY good tech through the entire tree.