Any thoughts on the Daemon Prince?

[Nameless Keeper]

Disclaimer: this is an opinion

The impression that I have is that the Daemon Prince is rather underwhelming and weak, if compared to the other Princes of Chaos. I obviously must be missing something, but just to make a point: a Great Unclean One easily reaches 75 MDef and 10k health while, with Nurgle Dedication, I'm yet to see that with the Daemon Prince.

[ddmsky]

引用自 Veolfen：

The thing is : it's almost better to park your Daemon Prince in the garage and play with exalted Daemons to lead your armies

This is the best solution. And unfortunately completely unfeasable for the rift campaign, as only LL can enter Rifts and can fight what's inside. For him to do that anyhow (at least on higher difficulty settings) DP has to gain levels along the campaign, to at least provide buffs for the units he's supposed to take inside.

[ddmsky]

Played further into campaign, maxed in Undivided path, equipped with the last set and as much ward and antimissile I could get, at 50lvl. DP is getting his back handed to him by Katarina on bear, at level 26. On Normal battle difficulty XD

Well...

[mars50120056666]

the lord himself is weak, but you can make a heck of an army through his skill tree. He seems to be more a leader style lord then one that gets in there in hand to hand. It requires you to know exactly what build you want before you start though, which sadly makes it really easy to accidentally choose the wrong skills and end up with a crippled group.

[ddmsky]

引用自 mars50120056666：

the lord himself is weak, but you can make a heck of an army through his skill tree. He seems to be more a leader style lord then one that gets in there in hand to hand. It requires you to know exactly what build you want before you start though, which sadly makes it really easy to accidentally choose the wrong skills and end up with a crippled group.

I know, other armies led by Exalted lords do fine. But I can't take them into Rifts unfortunately, so basically he's a deadweight in his own faction.

[Man of Culture]

引用自 dadamowsky：

引用自 mars50120056666：

the lord himself is weak, but you can make a heck of an army through his skill tree. He seems to be more a leader style lord then one that gets in there in hand to hand. It requires you to know exactly what build you want before you start though, which sadly makes it really easy to accidentally choose the wrong skills and end up with a crippled group.

I know, other armies led by Exalted lords do fine. But I can't take them into Rifts unfortunately, so basically he's a deadweight in his own faction.

I guess that's the price you pay to have a more diverse roster of units but I mean that shouldn't be the case. The LL should have something to offer. With body parts essentially determining your 'skill tree' and those body parts being pretty weak it just doesn't feel as good sending him into combat. I have two campaigns going for Daemon Prince right now. I did one on just hard/hard and one vh/vh and on vh you just can't put him into harms way 90% of the time. He gets absolutely devoured by any unit. You can either make him mediocre at combat and give no buffs to your army or you can give buffs to your army and he's weak as hell.

Being able to craft more diverse armies is only going to get you so far in higher difficulties but I guess that's just an added challenge until it maybe gets balanced going forward.

[ddmsky]

DP really needs a yellow and blue line, and a huge reword of his current red. I had two campaigns on vh but, apart from being focused from the get to, I lowered difficulty in hope this char would at least be fun on normal. Unfortunately, body parts are a huge let down. I guess there are several swords that do basically the same varying like 5% between weapon damage and armor piercing. All the other buffs are tame, to be very diplomatic about it - they could've give double of the stats they do, and I'm not sure would that beat Exalted lord with items on. The most useful ones come from the Tzeench as barrier and summoning Horrors can make DP at least anyhow useful on the battlefield. But that's not what I was hoping for with this LL

[Aapef]

I didn't try the Daemons of Chaos yet so I may be mistaking
But maybe going for the "best" of something isn't the solution? If you could be as good at Khorning than Skarbrand or as good at spellcasting as Kairos, then what would be the point of playing as them?

I wonder if going for a more "flexible" way of playing could be worth the try. Instead of making one single build, trying and adapt the build on the fly to the foe could maybe turn out to work.

You're about to fight tzeentch? Equip parts with more magic resistance and speed duelism to get rid of spellcasters quickly.
A Nurgle army then comes for you on the next turn? Swap your body parts for spells and missiles (idk if he has missiles, but you get my point). That's the strong thing with him compared to a monogod lord. You will never be as tanky as Ku'gath but if Ku'gath meets a tzeentch or missile heavy army he is fooked

[ddmsky]

引用自 Aapef：

I didn't try the Daemons of Chaos yet so I may be mistaking
But maybe going for the "best" of something isn't the solution? If you could be as good at Khorning than Skarbrand or as good at spellcasting as Kairos, then what would be the point of playing as them?

I wonder if going for a more "flexible" way of playing could be worth the try. Instead of making one single build, trying and adapt the build on the fly to the foe could maybe turn out to work.

You're about to fight tzeentch? Equip parts with more magic resistance and speed duelism to get rid of spellcasters quickly.
A Nurgle army then comes for you on the next turn? Swap your body parts for spells and missiles (idk if he has missiles, but you get my point). That's the strong thing with him compared to a monogod lord. You will never be as tanky as Ku'gath but if Ku'gath meets a tzeentch or missile heavy army he is fooked

Well... As I said, I tried to beat a spellcaster in melee with DP made for melee, and he failed :P. Pitted him against Little Groms as artillery hunter, tried to make him a spellcaster... That's the problem, he might have all the options to tailor himself but this tailoring leads nowhere as he basically is master of none and jack of *some* trades. Whatever you want to be done properly, you have to bring a dedicated hero with you, unfortunately.

[Aapef]

引用自 dadamowsky：

引用自 Aapef：

I didn't try the Daemons of Chaos yet so I may be mistaking
But maybe going for the "best" of something isn't the solution? If you could be as good at Khorning than Skarbrand or as good at spellcasting as Kairos, then what would be the point of playing as them?

I wonder if going for a more "flexible" way of playing could be worth the try. Instead of making one single build, trying and adapt the build on the fly to the foe could maybe turn out to work.

You're about to fight tzeentch? Equip parts with more magic resistance and speed duelism to get rid of spellcasters quickly.
A Nurgle army then comes for you on the next turn? Swap your body parts for spells and missiles (idk if he has missiles, but you get my point). That's the strong thing with him compared to a monogod lord. You will never be as tanky as Ku'gath but if Ku'gath meets a tzeentch or missile heavy army he is fooked

Well... As I said, I tried to beat a spellcaster in melee with DP made for melee, and he failed :P. Pitted him against Little Groms as artillery hunter, tried to make him a spellcaster... That's the problem, he might have all the options to tailor himself but this tailoring leads nowhere as he basically is master of none and jack of *some* trades. Whatever you want to be done properly, you have to bring a dedicated hero with you, unfortunately.

Hmm, not beating a spellcaster in melee with a melee build sounds problematic indeed. I'll have to try that out, although I kinda wanna wait for ME since his campaign is kinda unfair apparently (plus I'm not a fan of race campaigns like Vortex and Realms)

[Obi Hung Kenobi]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD AND SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE

WAAAHHHH

xD

theres something awesome about fighting with Daemon prince in Khornes final test, in that pool of blood

I was like no way you can fight in a river of blood

and yup


epic yo

[Malaficus Shaikan]

The prince himself isnt that great.
His biggest advantage is having all demons under his command.
Khorne beserkers and horrors make short work of most things.
He also can change his gear depending on his need.
You expect a long grindy battle?
Go full khorne.
Expect a short but hard battle go tzeentch.
Etc.
The strenght of the demon prince is adaptiblity.
It would beat the other factions in there speciality.
It will be able to adapt.

[Lost Latios]

引用自 Malaficus Shaikan：

The prince himself isnt that great.
His biggest advantage is having all demons under his command.
Khorne beserkers and horrors make short work of most things.
He also can change his gear depending on his need.
You expect a long grindy battle?
Go full khorne.
Expect a short but hard battle go tzeentch.
Etc.
The strenght of the demon prince is adaptiblity.
It would beat the other factions in there speciality.
It will be able to adapt.

I want to play Danial, God Slayer, WORLD Slayer, Demon Prince, Chosen of the Gods, Master of Chaos Undivided.

I don't want to play 'Demon Dress Up' with Danial the Slightly Above Average.

[Aapef]

引用自 Lost Latios：

引用自 Malaficus Shaikan：

The prince himself isnt that great.
His biggest advantage is having all demons under his command.
Khorne beserkers and horrors make short work of most things.
He also can change his gear depending on his need.
You expect a long grindy battle?
Go full khorne.
Expect a short but hard battle go tzeentch.
Etc.
The strenght of the demon prince is adaptiblity.
It would beat the other factions in there speciality.
It will be able to adapt.

I want to play Danial, God Slayer, WORLD Slayer, Demon Prince, Chosen of the Gods, Master of Chaos Undivided.

I don't want to play 'Demon Dress Up' with Danial the Slightly Above Average.

Daniel is just Daniel tho, he isn't supposed to be a master of whatever, he is basically a newborn

[DragynDance]

Even best possible equipment has him with stats far lower then even stock non-legendary lords. All of the spells he can get from equipment are the equivalent of putting just one point into the skill, making them worthless. It's better to just disband the daemon prince and then play his faction with non legendary lords + heros for all your casting and fighting needs, but unfortunately chaos legion also has the weakest faction mechanics of TWW3.

[{Δ} Achilles]

引用自 Lost Latios：

I don't want to play 'Demon Dress Up' with Danial the Slightly Above Average.

Lmao he's not even above average. He's below average.