Ironguts arent ok

[Burned Man]

i did several test on iron guts look like they underperform after charge,has anyone seen anything wrong with them?i thought they were supposed to be the elite ogre unit but regular ogre bull overperform by far i had battles when my bulls did 500-700 dmg value a good one for their price and ironguts couldnt reach 500.thanks for reading

[Kain]

The rest of the ogres are way over performing yes.

[SpeaksTooFast]

I think the high tier ogre units come from the camp and Ironguts are a T3 unit. If memory serves ogre bulls have a larger unit size which can be beneficial if looking at pure damage numbers. Ironguts should have more staying power in most match ups and should be easier to get to the fight undamaged.

[Fryskar]

Ironguts have armor.
Bulls have better numbers, but worse stats.
Maneaters have better stats.

[Burned Man]

Originally posted by Kain:

The rest of the ogres are way over performing yes.

not all units.like ogre bulls are doing ok,scraplaunchers too, maneaters are expensive but they get the job done,the main problem are skrag+gorgers+ironblaster cheese,

[Burned Man]

Originally posted by SpeaksTooFast:

I think the high tier ogre units come from the camp and Ironguts are a T3 unit. If memory serves ogre bulls have a larger unit size which can be beneficial if looking at pure damage numbers. Ironguts should have more staying power in most match ups and should be easier to get to the fight undamaged.

ogre bulls have larger number but ironguts have 100 dmg with AP and still lose matchups they should win or underperform, i did testing against bull with ironfists and ironguts lost a lot of hp when they should wreck a lower unit,i get ur point but i think they should nerf all the op stuff and put iron guts on a tier higher

[Burned Man]

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Ironguts have armor.
Bulls have better numbers, but worse stats.
Maneaters have better stats.

ye but ironguts vs regular maneater is the perfect example for just 200 more u wreck the ironguts and if test them against other infantrys with the same price they barely do dmg after charge(i just test them against tzar guard with shields and they lost a match up against a unit without AP and charging,both even have the same price)

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by BBBGreasus Goldtooth:

Originally posted by SpeaksTooFast:

I think the high tier ogre units come from the camp and Ironguts are a T3 unit. If memory serves ogre bulls have a larger unit size which can be beneficial if looking at pure damage numbers. Ironguts should have more staying power in most match ups and should be easier to get to the fight undamaged.

ogre bulls have larger number but ironguts have 100 dmg with AP and still lose matchups they should win or underperform, i did testing against bull with ironfists and ironguts lost a lot of hp when they should wreck a lower unit,i get ur point but i think they should nerf all the op stuff and put iron guts on a tier higher

I don't really see why ironguts should win easily, bulls with ironfists also aren't a lower unit, both are classified as t2.
Ironguts have better stats, yes, but not that massive better stats.
Also again, the bulls having 18 models makes them do a lot dmg, even more so if they get a charge off.

[Fryskar]

Originally posted by BBBGreasus Goldtooth:

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Ironguts have armor.
Bulls have better numbers, but worse stats.
Maneaters have better stats.

ye but ironguts vs regular maneater is the perfect example for just 200 more u wreck the ironguts and if test them against other infantrys with the same price they barely do dmg after charge(i just test them against tzar guard with shields and they lost a match up against a unit without AP and charging,both even have the same price)

Ironguts not trading well vs maneaters doesn't surprise me, Maneaters have better stats besides armor.

Neither does them doing poor after charge vs tzar guards with shields.
Unodified ironguts have too poor attack for both. Tzar guards 50MD vs the 36Ma of ironguts prevents them well from hitting. Also their splashsize of 3 means they'll take serval hits to kill anything.

[SpeaksTooFast]

I thought half the point of ogres was that their mass let them get out of engagements so they could keep cycle charging.

[Zeek]

Keep in mind that there are issues with charging in general. Right now it appears it's pretty much useless. The next patch is supposed to address this on some level

[Imposter]

Ogres should be able to plow into any regular infantry (edit)because they are twice their size. TotalWar Warhammer has a weird way of translating size to strength. It shouldn't matter how much MD a mass infantry unit should have, when an Ogres arms is about the size of one human already.

(That and Zeek already stated about "Charging" being an issue already)

[Guillérmidas]

Ironguts were never elite infantry to begin with. They were just ogres with heavy armor and +1L +1WS. They are the equivalent of Greatbeards/Big Uns from dwarfs/orks.

Maneaters would be more like hammerers/black orks are for dawis/greenskins to ogres.

[Burned Man]

Originally posted by Fryskar:

Originally posted by BBBGreasus Goldtooth:

ogre bulls have larger number but ironguts have 100 dmg with AP and still lose matchups they should win or underperform, i did testing against bull with ironfists and ironguts lost a lot of hp when they should wreck a lower unit,i get ur point but i think they should nerf all the op stuff and put iron guts on a tier higher

I don't really see why ironguts should win easily, bulls with ironfists also aren't a lower unit, both are classified as t2.
Ironguts have better stats, yes, but not that massive better stats.
Also again, the bulls having 18 models makes them do a lot dmg, even more so if they get a charge off.

iron guts should hit way harder than what they do right now,ogre bulls are tier2 ironguts are 3,yes they have a slight stats improvement but their dmg only works at initial charge,after that its almost nothing,ive seen this several times my regular ogres get more value than my ironguts while being on a blob,maneater have better stats which should make them win the long fight not to wreck them without losing even half hp due to the iron guts not inflicting lot of dmg,its ok if they lose the long fight against tzar guard with shields but doesnt make sense i do dmg on the charge and nothing after it,might an attack animation not working properly maybe or them just being a bad unit but right now the only point to bring them is the armor they have to tank ranged fire bc melee even kossars with spears manage to outvalue them.

[Burned Man]

Originally posted by Zeek:

Keep in mind that there are issues with charging in general. Right now it appears it's pretty much useless. The next patch is supposed to address this on some level

wasnt tracking that thanks,i thought charge were ok except for those slaanesh chariots

[Burned Man]

Originally posted by Guillérmidas:

Ironguts were never elite infantry to begin with. They were just ogres with heavy armor and +1L +1WS. They are the equivalent of Greatbeards/Big Uns from dwarfs/orks.

Maneaters would be more like hammerers/black orks are for dawis/greenskins to ogres.

they always were the elite ogre unit,their dmg output was extremely good,they didnt have a lot of stats difference with regular bulls but the dmg they have on tabletop was better than the maneaters,this ones were a good allround unit u could use at any way,ofc are different thing but right now they work more as a bodyguard unit than an actual hitter