The Khorne Roster Debacle

[Dean Winchester]

- No mortal lords
- No Daemon prince

- No khorne marauders, meaning the faction has no T1 chaff
- No skullreapers or wrathmongers
- No CHOSEN. I expected this to be a given unit but CA truly subverted my expectations
- No marked gors or beastmen beyond the red minotaurs

- No blood chariots (juggernaut chariots), despite the blog showing them as a concept art
- No khorne knights on horses or any basic skirmisher cav like marauder horsemen

- No bloodbeasts, just a mediocre beastmen chaos spawn that's red
- No slaughterbrute

At least we got gorebeast chariots that are red, right? The whole point of monogods is to get a mixed roster of WoC, DoC, and beastmen. CA couldn't even deliver this, omitting a massive number of mortal units and all beastmen beyond the minotaurs. They satisfy neither the Daemons players like myself, who wanted pure daemons, nor those who wanted full Khornate armies with marked mortal warriors, beastmen, and ascension to daemonhood for mortal lords.

In the end monogods should be renamed to hollowgods to better represent what they really are.

[jonoliveira12]

Mactalon の投稿を引用：

jonoliveira12 の投稿を引用：

I am pretty satisfied with the Khorne roster they showed.

Only things I disagree with are Skarbrand instead of Valkia, and no Khorne Berzerkers, which are one of the signature units of Khorne.

They have Berserkers. From the roster reveal -

"Berserkers, with their dual axes, are brutal and terrifying anti-infantry warriors who will tear unsuspecting foes limb-from-limb."

No, they only have Warriors of Chaos with Dual Axes, not the actual Khorne Berzerkers unit.

[Mactalon]

jonoliveira12 の投稿を引用：

Mactalon の投稿を引用：

They have Berserkers. From the roster reveal -

"Berserkers, with their dual axes, are brutal and terrifying anti-infantry warriors who will tear unsuspecting foes limb-from-limb."

No, they only have Warriors of Chaos with Dual Axes, not the actual Khorne Berzerkers unit.

They specifically noted them as Berserkers though, and they're functionally exactly that, as Khorne Berserkers are Chaos Warriors with dual axes. I think that's what we're getting as them.

[Mactalon]

Hurricane の投稿を引用：

Mactalon の投稿を引用：

They specifically noted them as Berserkers though, and they're functionally exactly that, as Khorne Berserkers are Chaos Warriors with dual axes. I think that's what we're getting as them.

Do they have khorne helmets? Full plate red armor? If not theyre not khorne zerkers....

Well this was the image that came with them, so yes it's safe to assume they really are.

https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www2019/uploads/2021/06/10153758/khorne-roster-reveal-chaos-warriors-1024x576.jpg

It's also worth noting that Khorne Berserkers were never an actual entity in fantasy, only 40k. They never had models or anything specific for WFB, Khorne's followers were just berserkers in general, and they favoured dual wielding axes, which amounts to the same thing in the end but they've never had their own unit as a thing until now. It makes sense for them to do it though so it's good they're in the roster.

[Dean Winchester]

Diedkid の投稿を引用：

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

"I never really meant that"
Yes you did. Do I need to pull up the quote where you compare monogods to Cathay again?

My stance was always that if CA are able to make up entirely new unit roster for Cathay, why wouldn't they be able to make up new daemon units for monogod factions. Admittedly I might have accidentally phrased it as making up an entirely new roster, but what I meant was that we would likely be getting new units(which I was wrong about).

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

It's not, and it won't be. They're all chaos warriors with different symbols on them, they're all fundamentally similar. Of course, "massive" is non specific, so I'm sure you'll be in denial mode when the difference between khorne warriors and regular warriors is 15 melee attack and 10 melee defence.

If they make slaanesh units significantly faster and more suited for flanking, tzzentch units have bound spells, and nurgle units slow-moving with poison and regeneration traits, then yeah, I would consider them different units like I've mentioned before. If its just minor stat differences and no different traits between them, then no, I would not consider them to be different units.
I'm still under the belief that these are really easy to implement changes that CA can do to help make each other them stand out more, but considering how GW apparently put their foot down on CA adding in more non-bear themed units to the game, I wouldn't be surprised at this point if the same will happen to chaos warriors which would be really disappointing.

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

" you do have different options and tactics available"
No, they don't. They're an elite melee faction that runs at the enemy and grinds them down in melee. Just because they have 2 flying units doesn't mean they can have tactics beyond what i listed. "artillery", they have 1 unit. These guys are more rigid and inflexible and than the dwarfs.

Yeah, and you can use their melee units in different ways. The issue with Dwarfs is that they're forced to play a very specific style of defending their artillery and holding the line against enemy infantry and cavalry, which doesn't leave much room variety and tactics besides where to best place infantry to tank damage. Khorne on the hand is very aggressive and proactive, with their units being suited for different match-ups. Furries go after artillery and the vulnerable backline, chaos warriors focus on tanking the bulk of the enemy damage, bloodletters focus on slaughtering chaff infantry to make the army stronger, skullcrushers focus on charging in, etc. I'd say its on par with the vampire counts tactical options if not a tiny bit more depending on what the cultist can do and what Khorne's battle meter does.

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

No, you started out boasting about how we know nothing about khorne,

Which was true at the time.

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

and how it won't be daemons of khorne with WoC backup,

Which technically is somewhat true since shared daemons like furies and one beastmen unit got added in, but I would still say that I was wrong.

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

how it'll be brand new and full of new units and not limited by anything as CA is making Cathay from the ground up.

I didn't mean to imply that the entire army would be completely made up by CA, but yeah, I did expect CA to add in a few original units to Khorne's roster which sadly turned out not to be the case.

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

Now you're just glad they get an army, because everything else that you said was completely false.

No, no, no. I was always glad that each god was getting their own army and unique mechanics. Always. I just thought that CA would go much further with the concept rather than what we ended up getting, which is an alright but not great roster. I find disappointing, but I'd still rather have this than all god factions be combined together and have no distinct identity or playstyle besides just being daemons.

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

Final paragraph is that brand new "they don't need to have all of these units, WoC need units too!" cope. The point of monogods is to mix up mortals, beastmen, and daemons dedicated to a chaos god. Nobody wants a daemon focused roster with monogod factions, we have Daemons of Chaos for that (allegedly). Omitting so many mortals misses the point. That's all there is to it.

Eh yes and no. I don't mean for it to come off as a brightside or coping mechanism, just more of the reality of situation. If Warriors of Chaos are still going to be their own thing, then Warriors of Chaos should get the most/best mortal units to make them stand out from the Daemon armies.
But to be completely honest, I do think CA keeping Warriors of Chaos as its own faction instead of fully merging them into 5 different chaos factions was a big mistake. Its not something that I think will ruin my experience depending on how the rest of the factions turn out and their campaign mechanics, but it does feel like a huge miss opportunity.

Looks like I missed your essay.

And your stance was wrong like pretty much everything else you write. Claiming that they would be getting made up rosters and using Cathay to support the claim was seriously uneducated as to what monogods even are

One being faster and another having bound spells doesn't change the fact that they're chaos warriors. All chaos warriors are fundamentally a similar unit.

They're not on par with vampire options because, unlike the vamps, khorne has no expendable chaff, no summons, no magic, few options for fliers, few cavalry options. The roster is barebones. What you described is how a battle will play out 99% of the campaign. Khorne warriors grinding it out in melee, some cav charges, and furies and hounds fighting artillery and skirmishers. Repeat for 150 turns.

Except it was never true that we "know nothing". In the very reveal we saw Daemons, we saw Skullcrushers. Monogods were confirmed. I predicted daemons with chaos warrior backup, and I was spot on. Meanwhile you were falsely claiming that somehow this faction will be made from the ground up like Cathay and how different looking chaos warriors with slightly different stats are totally different units from one another.

"somewhat true"
Cope. Furies are a daemon unit so I don't get why you're bringing them up. One unit of beastmen doesn't somehow make you correct. Monogods always entailed mortal troops (largely drawn from the WoC roster) and daemons. We got mortal troops and daemons.

"this than all god factions be combined together and have no distinct identity or playstyle besides just being daemons."
LOL. Like how skaven have no distinct identity by combining the 4 great clans and their tools? Keep proving that you're a secondary who knows nothing of warhammer.
"all skaven clans combined together and have no distinct identity or playstyle besides just being rats"
What nonsense.

It absolutely is a cope. Nobody who's ever wanted monogods wanted them to be daemon focused. We have daemons of chaos for that. CA failed to deliver on the mortal side of the roster.

" I do think CA keeping Warriors of Chaos as its own faction instead of fully merging them into 5 different chaos factions was a big mistake."
More cluelessness of Warhammer. WoC are a faction of mortal viking warriors fighting to win the favour of their gods. Daemons are eldritch horrors that spew forth from hell. The only big mistake here was yours, thinking that either one of these TT races is somehow bad and needs to be eliminated and replaced with the monogod trite. Seriously bad taste. Monogods can exist, but not at the expense of actual armybook races.

[Dean Winchester]

chubbyninja89 (TNB) の投稿を引用：

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

The only big mistake here was yours, thinking that either one of these TT races is somehow bad and needs to be eliminated and replaced with the monogod trite. Seriously bad taste. Monogods can exist, but not at the expense of actual armybook races.

I take issue with this statement dude.

It was a good idea to break up the chaos gods into their own separate races.

It's not trite or in bad taste simply because they didn't just make it WoC and DoC like in the stupid TT.

And yeah, I said it, I think the obsessing over the TT is stupid.

Because as a TW fan first, I'd much rather have the options to play X chaos god's army and faction than only have a complicated choice of which god I dedicate my faction to.

So I do find it pretty laughable when people complain about the mono god factions, when just as many, if not more, people were wanting them.

What makes you think I care about what you think or what you take issues with? You're a secondary who knows little about the setting.

It wasn't a good idea. Hollowgods are rigid, inflexible, boring, shallow, don't fit thematically, and have pointless unit overlaps.

It is in bad taste to say that monogods > DoC + WoC. Those factions were split up for a reason. The only reason we're getting monogods is so CA can sell chaos warrior and beastmen reskins to players for a second time, while claiming that the game has 6 factions rather than 3.

Again, I don't care what you think. It's not "obsessing", it's delivering the tabletop races. DoC were my most anticipated race. WoC are in my top 3.

You have no evidence to back up the claim that more people wanted monogods than WoC/DoC.

[Dean Winchester]

chubbyninja89 (TNB) の投稿を引用：

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

What makes you think I care about what you think or what you take issues with? You're a secondary who knows little about the setting.

It wasn't a good idea. Hollowgods are rigid, inflexible, boring, shallow, don't fit thematically, and have pointless unit overlaps.

It is in bad taste to say that monogods > DoC + WoC. Those factions were split up for a reason. The only reason we're getting monogods is so CA can sell chaos warrior and beastmen reskins to players for a second time, while claiming that the game has 6 factions rather than 3.

Again, I don't care what you think. It's not "obsessing", it's delivering the tabletop races. DoC were my most anticipated race. WoC are in my top 3.

You have no evidence to back up the claim that more people wanted monogods than WoC/DoC.

When the first you say is "What makes you think I care about what you think or what you take issues with?", that just shows how ridiculously arrogant you are.

And what makes you think any of us really care what you think?

And you have no more evidence to back up your claim that more people didn't want combined DoC either.


But either way, the mono gods IS the better way to go.

Because while I can appreciate the idea of having somewhat complex dedication system to a combined WoC and DoC as a single race, I can understand how more people would just like to play X god's faction and that's it.

I mean, with the mono god factions, I will be able to play Khorne or Nurgle's armies if I want to rather than having a bunch of stuff to go through to make a proper Khorne or Nurgle army.


And seriously.

If the DoC were a combined race, there's too much of a chance that they'd be super OP and then get smash with the Nerf Bat.

That's something you TT purists never think about.

No, it doesn't make me arrogant to not care about what you think. Pretty sure that's not the definition of arrogance.

I don't doubt that nobody cares what I think, nor do I care. Do you take me for some naive idealist?

I never made such baseless, silly claims as "more people wanted X than Y" that have no evidence behind them. You did.

"it IS the better way to go because I SAY SO and my OPINION is good"
got it. Your reasoning of "people like it" is completely baseless. I like running undivided armies of eldritch demonic horrors. I play DoC. If i want badass armoured viking warriors, I play WoC. No, my opinion is superior, DoC/WoC is the better way to go.

We don't think about it because there's no reason to think that a TT armybook race would be OP and can't be balanced. Thinking so is a total heap of nonsense. Daemons have weaknesses.

You can keep making baseless opinionated claims about how good monogods are but the matter of fact is that Woc exist and so will DoC, likely led be Be'lakor, when game 3 is released. Monogods are just fluff so CA can sell reskins. Get over it.

[Obamenau]

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

What makes you think I care about what you think or what you take issues with? You're a secondary who knows little about the setting.

Then why should others care about what you say? Why are you even on the forums?

[Dean Winchester]

chubbyninja89 (TNB) の投稿を引用：

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

And none of your overly opinionated claims are biased either right?

You're just being one of those people who are obsessed with the TT and army books.

And when you claim your opinion is better, that is arrogant. Trying to put yourself on a little high horse and all that.

You're only looking at it from your own stuck up point of view. You don't stop to think about what the majority of people might want.


You're blind to the fact that this is in fact the better way to do it because it gives everyone the options rather than making it more complicated then it might need to be.

Because I'm sure, and kind of hoping, that CA will just rework the WoC race into being the Chaos Undivided faction, with some DoC units and such in their rosters and such.

Because as a fan of the TW games first, I'd much rather have more interesting options than have the devs focus on keeping a few obsessed TT fans happy.

"And none of your overly opinionated claims are biased either right?"
What does that have to do with anything I said? What are you responding to? You made a baseless, opinionated claim, that X is better than Y because more people want X. Yet, there's no evidence that more people want X. I guess pointing fingers is all you can do at this point.

"You're just being one of those people who are obsessed with the TT and army books."
LOL, what does "obsessed" mean? This is an adaptation of WHFB. DoC and WoC are in my top 3 factions.

"And when you claim your opinion is better, that is arrogant. Trying to put yourself on a little high horse and all that."
I was mocking your nonsensical posts.

"You don't stop to think about what the majority of people might want."
LOL, find and prove to me what the majority of people want.

"rather than making it more complicated then it might need to be."
Daemons of Chaos are about as complicated as Skaven. Both factions have specific subfactions that make up the army, fulfilling specific goals.

Warriors of Chaos aren't Daemons of Chaos. Keep ousting yourself as a secondary. I reckon you'd be ok with mixing up vampire counts and lizardmen as well.

LOL, again, what makes monogods more interesting than Daemons of Chaos and Warriors of Chaos? Monogods are just a boring mix up of the two factions. What is up with monogods being better for Total War than Daemons of Chaos? I can't wrap my head around the absurd jumps and mental gymnastics of your posts.

[GalloglassCA]

Steady Physical is a troll. Just report relevant posts and move on.

[Dean Winchester]

Wilehad の投稿を引用：

Steady Physical is a troll. Just report relevant posts and move on.

Nice ad hominem attack.

"Just report them, i don't like what they're saying"

[Sardorim]

They'll get DLC that will solve all that. Most likely the Valkia DLC.

[Hunny]

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

Wilehad の投稿を引用：

Steady Physical is a troll. Just report relevant posts and move on.

Nice ad hominem attack.

"Just report them, i don't like what they're saying"

Not a ad hominem attack...

I am quite sure the unit cards of the Chaos Warrior's of Khorne showed they had frienzy or berserk passive ability, makes them more than just a reskin.

If you would argue othetvise then every unit would just be a reskin of another one.

[Dean Winchester]

Mossa の投稿を引用：

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

Nice ad hominem attack.

"Just report them, i don't like what they're saying"

Not a ad hominem attack...

I am quite sure the unit cards of the Chaos Warrior's of Khorne showed they had frienzy or berserk passive ability, makes them more than just a reskin.

If you would argue othetvise then every unit would just be a reskin of another one.

Umm, yes it is buddy. Look up what things mean before writing nonsense.

The statement of something being a reskin or not has nothing to do with their stats. The units are basically red chaos warriors with khorne insignia. They also reuse animations from Norscans.

chubbyninja89 (TNB) の投稿を引用：

Wilehad の投稿を引用：

Steady Physical is a troll. Just report relevant posts and move on.

Yeah, I'm starting to get that feeling a little as well.

Either that or he's just completely obsessed with the TT and all that.

Rather than addressing my post you'd rather proceed with petty attacks. I accept your concession. It's funny that you'd call me a troll while writing outright lies that you can't back up.

"obsessed with TT". Better to be obsessed with TT than to be a clueless secondary with bad taste who knows nothing of the setting.

Edit: Just saw that you have like 4000 hours across the historical games so it explains a lot. Warhammer rejuvenated this series. And it did so because it's based off the setting and the asymmetrical tabletop races within it. It did not rejuvenate the series with differently coloured chaos warriors - nearly identical units that look slightly different is more of a historical thing after all

[jonoliveira12]

chubbyninja89 (TNB) の投稿を引用：

SteadilyPhysical の投稿を引用：

We're not conceding anything to you pal, we're just done with listening to you whine about pretty much nothing.

The only valid thing you actually complained about was the fact that the mono god factions don't have chosen, and that's it.

All those other things aren't NEEDED for the roster to work.

Technically, every mortal in the monogod factions IS Chosen, so he does not even score points there.

[Funky Monk]

jonoliveira12 の投稿を引用：

chubbyninja89 (TNB) の投稿を引用：

We're not conceding anything to you pal, we're just done with listening to you whine about pretty much nothing.

The only valid thing you actually complained about was the fact that the mono god factions don't have chosen, and that's it.

All those other things aren't NEEDED for the roster to work.

Technically, every mortal in the monogod factions IS Chosen, so he does not even score points there.

Isn't it more like the mortal is following the god, rather than being chosen by them?