a Medieval Dynasty by definition and by usage

[Lord von Games]

Meriam Webster:
dynasty
noun
dy·​nas·​ty ˈdī-nə-stē also -ˌna-stē, especially British ˈdi-nə-stē
pluraldynasties
Synonyms of dynasty
1
: a succession of rulers of the same line of descent (see descent sense 1a)
a dynasty that ruled China for nearly 300 years
2
: a powerful group or family that maintains its position for a considerable time
born into a powerful political dynasty
a baseball dynasty

and let's not forget the history of the word

Word History
Etymology
Middle English dynastia, dynastie "power, sovereignty, succession of rulers," borrowed from Medieval Latin dynastīa, going back to Late Latin, "rule, power," borrowed from Greek dynasteía "arbitrarily exercised political power, lordship, rule," from dynástēs "holder of political power, lord, ruler" + -eia -y entry 2 — more at dynast

First Known Use
14th century, in the meaning defined at sense 1

Time Traveler
The first known use of dynasty was in the 14th century

Let me translate all that information for you. The word was originally used in the Medieval period to refer to family that ruled. Within the hierarchy of the feudal system that would mean a titled position. That IS not maybe, but DEFINITELY THEE meaning of the word Dynasty when used within the period it was born and meant. When used in the time period of a "Medieval" dynasty. When used outside the time period, it can mean "top class", such as Farmer Dynasty. When used in its own time period, the medieval, it's not an expression, but a literal translation (first definition, that's how language works), as I shall illustrate.

If I make a game called "Industrialist Tycoon" and then I fail to put the Tycoon aspects in the game... sure I can point to a legacy of games with the Tycoon in it... but it doesn't change the fact that certain titles come with clear expectations, and should not need a mile long paragraph to dislodge them from their titular expectations.

Rather than "rage against the machine" and ignorantly, allow me to further expound on this game's background in it's "Dynasty" usage.

The first game was "Farmer's Dynasty" and was clearly about a modern-age family and had nothing to do with an actual hereditary claim of ruling ancestry (whether from King to lowly Knight or Baronet). In this case, the game, used the concept of Medieval/Ancient "Dynastic" term to capture the concept of being legendary or "Kingly" as in top farmer. It's the use of the term Dynasty from the Medieval times where it meant to be top of the class heap to make the claim that you would be top farmer, with a legacy, and a family. Cool. Nice use of the expression. Perhaps "Legacy" would have been better... but I like it.

HOWEVER... if you go back in time to when the phrase was actually used... if you go back to the actual days of the Dynasties where the two-word term "Medieval Dynasty" was actually used, you lose the casual-right to claim it's just an "expression", when you are now in the period of the game where it wasn't an expression, instead, it was a very very specific thing.

Let me further elaborate. It's like making a game title using the expression "Curse like a sailor" and making it about some IDK, Trucker game... let's call it "Trucker Boss - Cursing Like A Sailor" then, cool. Probably about a "frenzied" truck game that is stressful, and full of expletives. However, if you make another game, this one is actually nautical, IDK, let's call the game "Sea Captain - Cursing Like A Sailor" and then you don't get to be a sailor... WTH? If your going to take the game franchise to the actual period of the actual expression, you lose the right to say... oh, it's just an expression taken from the time period of the actual expression that actually means something that we don't want to put in your game... WTH? Seriously?

Look up the definition of the two-word term, "Medieval Dynasty", and you have to get VERY creative and use definitions way way way down the line to mean ANYTHING BUT a titled-ruling-family of either royalty or nobility. Now, you can make that "ruling" small in scope, because I agree, that this isn't a castle-building, king-ruling, duke-doing game. What I don't understand is what seems to be a stubbornness to "finish" the game's own titular usage. It takes very little code to make the title fit the game... for example... just earn a "Knighthood" with the King and he gives you your titled dynasty, and let the player unlock a Manor-house". Now its a Medieval Dynasty.

But to pretend otherwise its a shame on the name of the game. A "Medieval Dynasty" should NEVER be a peasant simulator.

My Compromise: Just because I, and many others find it odd that with a simple flick of additional code the game can be made complete, I acknowledge completely that there is often a big difference between "Factual" and "Matters". Just because the inclusion and immersion is important to me and many others, does not mean it is equally important to everyone else. I readily concede that. We all have our preferences. Clearly some people would like to see this game a first-person extension of the game Banished. Others seem to hope for something more like a first person extension of Lord of the Realm or even Lords of the Rings.

Concluding Note: I think a Medieval Dynasty should have a Medieval Dynasty, the setting of the orignial and birthplace of the term, clearly stamping it in its first defintion, with all the expectations that a Medieval game offers. I expect that the developers would keep the game within the scope that it clearly is - and focus more on developing a simple domain, no great castles, sieges or epic warfare. All of this limited scope can be wonderfully immersively taken in with a simple Crest-Tied-Titled King quest that offers a hereditary "landed" / "Titled" position. And in keeping with a good sandbox game, this and many other concepts can be optionally taken in quest or custom settings.

Edit: After some constructive back and forth discussion with veteran gamer, "TheRealMuehle" I have opted to support the title "Thane", as it relates VERY well to being in touch with the commoner and peasant life, it relates directly to being given land to manager, it is Step One in the feudal caste of a Dynasty, and applies to many European cultures. I think its simplicity and yet Dynastic nature would be perfect to make the game fit both the literal-period definition of Dynasty and the expression, it would also require very very little code-change or playstyle change.

[TheRealMuehle]

🤔 Is it trolling? Or just "Intellect"? I'd feel bad, if it's the later one. Hmmmmm.
Well, I think I'll just ask him!

Wanna play?

Edit:
Hell, what's up with peoples for the last couple of days?
Inviting me to troll-sports and then going offline
as soon as i tend to accept! Damn!

[CaBux]

This is a wonderful game that I have thoroughly enjoyed playing for the past 4+ years. I don't care what it's called or how it fits contextually within any era of history, I just know that I love playing it

In my game, I build a village to the best of my ability whilst building my own skill set; have a family that I try to spoil and make as comfortable as possible; recruit NPCs that are the best for the job that I want them to do, live in nice houses and have nice food. I explore the map, loot ruins and carts, kill bandits and dangerous animals whilst leaving the non-dangerous animals alone. I complete quests to the benefit the people who live in my local area and, depending on the King, I either help him or ignore him totally ... although I do pay my taxes

I relish all the updates the devs provide - some I love, some annoy me and others are just 'meh' but none of them have significantly diminished my enjoyment of this game

My opinions may be irrelevant but this still is a wonderful game and, with imagination, I can make it be whatever I want it to be, so the name does not really matter. I just know it's my favourite game and, until I get bored, I'm going to keep on playing it however I want to play it

[tpeaver]

Someone needs to look up the definition of "game".

[Not MrBallen]

Originally posted by Lord von Games:

Meriam Webster:
dynasty
noun
dy·​nas·​ty ˈdī-nə-stē also -ˌna-stē, especially British ˈdi-nə-stē
pluraldynasties
Synonyms of dynasty
1
: a succession of rulers of the same line of descent (see descent sense 1a)
a dynasty that ruled China for nearly 300 years
2
: a powerful group or family that maintains its position for a considerable time
born into a powerful political dynasty
a baseball dynasty

and let's not forget the history of the word

Word History
Etymology
Middle English dynastia, dynastie "power, sovereignty, succession of rulers," borrowed from Medieval Latin dynastīa, going back to Late Latin, "rule, power," borrowed from Greek dynasteía "arbitrarily exercised political power, lordship, rule," from dynástēs "holder of political power, lord, ruler" + -eia -y entry 2 — more at dynast

First Known Use
14th century, in the meaning defined at sense 1

Time Traveler
The first known use of dynasty was in the 14th century

Let me translate all that information for you. The word was originally used in the Medieval period to refer to family that ruled. Within the hierarchy of the feudal system that would mean a titled position. That IS not maybe, but DEFINITELY THEE meaning of the word Dynasty when used within the period it was born and meant. When used in the time period of a "Medieval" dynasty. When used outside the time period, it can mean "top class", such as Farmer Dynasty. When used in its own time period, the medieval, it's not an expression, but a literal translation (first definition, that's how language works), as I shall illustrate.

If I make a game called "Industrialist Tycoon" and then I fail to put the Tycoon aspects in the game... sure I can point to a legacy of games with the Tycoon in it... but it doesn't change the fact that certain titles come with clear expectations, and should not need a mile long paragraph to dislodge them from their titular expectations.

Rather than "rage against the machine" and ignorantly, allow me to further expound on this game's background in it's "Dynasty" usage.

The first game was "Farmer's Dynasty" and was clearly about a modern-age family and had nothing to do with an actual hereditary claim of ruling ancestry (whether from King to lowly Knight or Baronet). In this case, the game, used the concept of Medieval/Ancient "Dynastic" term to capture the concept of being legendary or "Kingly" as in top farmer. It's the use of the term Dynasty from the Medieval times where it meant to be top of the class heap to make the claim that you would be top farmer, with a legacy, and a family. Cool. Nice use of the expression. Perhaps "Legacy" would have been better... but I like it.

HOWEVER... if you go back in time to when the phrase was actually used... if you go back to the actual days of the Dynasties where the two-word term "Medieval Dynasty" was actually used, you lose the casual-right to claim it's just an "expression", when you are now in the period of the game where it wasn't an expression, instead, it was a very very specific thing.

Let me further elaborate. It's like making a game title using the expression "Curse like a sailor" and making it about some IDK, Trucker game... let's call it "Trucker Boss - Cursing Like A Sailor" then, cool. Probably about a "frenzied" truck game that is stressful, and full of expletives. However, if you make another game, this one is actually nautical, IDK, let's call the game "Sea Captain - Cursing Like A Sailor" and then you don't get to be a sailor... WTH? If your going to take the game franchise to the actual period of the actual expression, you lose the right to say... oh, it's just an expression taken from the time period of the actual expression that actually means something that we don't want to put in your game... WTH? Seriously?

Look up the definition of the two-word term, "Medieval Dynasty", and you have to get VERY creative and use definitions way way way down the line to mean ANYTHING BUT a titled-ruling-family of either royalty or nobility. Now, you can make that "ruling" small in scope, because I agree, that this isn't a castle-building, king-ruling, duke-doing game. What I don't understand is what seems to be a stubbornness to "finish" the game's own titular usage. It takes very little code to make the title fit the game... for example... just earn a "Knighthood" with the King and he gives you your titled dynasty, and let the player unlock a Manor-house". Now its a Medieval Dynasty.

But to pretend otherwise its a shame on the name of the game. A "Medieval Dynasty" should NEVER be a peasant simulator.

My Compromise: Just because I, and many others find it odd that with a simple flick of additional code the game can be made complete, I acknowledge completely that there is often a big difference between "Factual" and "Matters". Just because the inclusion and immersion is important to me and many others, does not mean it is equally important to everyone else. I readily concede that. We all have our preferences. Clearly some people would like to see this game a first-person extension of the game Banished. Others seem to hope for something more like a first person extension of Lord of the Realm or even Lords of the Rings.

Concluding Note: I think a Medieval Dynasty should have a Medieval Dynasty, the setting of the orignial and birthplace of the term, clearly stamping it in its first defintion, with all the expectations that a Medieval game offers. I expect that the developers would keep the game within the scope that it clearly is - and focus more on developing a simple domain, no great castles, sieges or epic warfare. All of this limited scope can be wonderfully immersively taken in with a simple Crest-Tied-Titled King quest that offers a hereditary "landed" / "Titled" position. And in keeping with a good sandbox game, this and many other concepts can be optionally taken in quest or custom settings.

Ism there a TLDR?

[TheOriginalMark:-)]

Originally posted by Lord von Games:

I respect if this subject is not important to everyone.

I suspect that it not important to anyone (yourself excepted) but if it makes you happy lets ask the devs to rename it "Medieval Family of Multiple Generations".

[Wizard of Woz]

Originally posted by Lord von Games:

Originally posted by *Morri*:

This very much.

If they made a computer game back then in medieval times and named it "something something DYNASTY", they would probably have been refering to royalty and the likes.

If you make a game in current day and name it "something something DYNASTY", it can refer to the second definition as well. Even if the game itself takes place in medieval times.

We use current day language to describe things, and we don't suddenly switch language to old-english whenever we are describing a period in medieval times.

I'm sorry you interpreted it the other way, but that doesn't mean the game is named wrongly.

I respect if this subject is not important to everyone. It does not change context and the expectations it creates. You can go to a lot of work to "talk your way out of it", but it doesn't change its starting context.

Let me further elaborate. It's like making a game title using the expression "Curse like a sailor" and making it about some IDK, Trucker game... let's call it "Trucker Boss - Cursing Like A Sailor" then, cool. Probably about a "frenzied" truck game that is stressful, and full of expletives. Clearly you are just using the expression, and you don't mean to include sailors. However, if you make another game, this one is actually nautical, IDK, let's call the game "Sea Captain - Cursing Like A Sailor" and then you don't get to be a sailor... WTH? If you're going to take the game franchise to the actual period of the actual expression, you lose the right to casually say... oh, it's just an expression taken from the time period", without misleading, and missing the obvious expectations it creates.

What it most amazing to me, is change a few words, tweak a quest here and there, and you can satisfy the title, satisfy ALL the definitions, improve the realism, increase the immersion, and still keep the one's who don't care, still plugged into the game, because immersion doesn't seem to bother them one way or another - which is cool. You can make every definition and every group happy or you can keep it this way...

Or you can stop closing your mind to only one definition of Dynasty and use the one that describes the game perfectly, you know, like you quoted in your first post.

[*Morri*]

Originally posted by Lord von Games:

I respect if this subject is not important to everyone. It does not change context and the expectations it creates. You can go to a lot of work to "talk your way out of it", but it doesn't change its starting context.

Talking my way out of what? I have no dogs in this fight, so no need to talk my way out of anything. I'm playing the game just like you. And this is just one of the meanings of the word; how i interpreted it when i bought the game and clearly how the devs thought of it as well.

Don't know why you are so adamant it's wrong somehow.

I get you want a title, and I don't begrudge you that - i think eventually getting chosen castellan would be cool - but the name of the game isn't wrong, even if you remain just a village leader peasant.

[Zornvel]

I think this "great" work of art was already once posted here a few years ago. Cannot remember what happend to the thread.

[Ookapia]

Originally posted by Zornvel:

I think this "great" work of art was already once posted here a few years ago. Cannot remember what happend to the thread.

Oh ha, what a rabbit hole.

[TheRealMuehle]

Originally posted by Ookapia:

Originally posted by Zornvel:

I think this "great" work of art was already once posted here a few years ago. Cannot remember what happend to the thread.

Oh ha, what a rabbit hole.

You've made me curious.
Any good keyword for the search-bar?

[AgeOfBacon]

No one gives a ♥♥♥♥.
This game is about a low class random founding a village in a remote area. Stop trying to make it about castles and wars and other crap like that.

[Ookapia]

Originally posted by TheRealMuehle:

You've made me curious.

It's all about the definition.

[TheRealMuehle]

DAMN!
'21 ! Same guy!
Replied 2x, myself!
And then he's close to 90h, now?
HOW?!? Am I the only one calling 90h in a game just taking a short glimpse?!

[Lord von Games]

Originally posted by *Morri*:

but the name of the game isn't wrong, even if you remain just a village leader peasant.

Sorry, but it is by definition, very wrong,

Example of games, Right and Wrong. First in the set uses terms as an expression (or the 2nd or 3rd alternate, expanded definition), the second in the set goes to the source of the terms, where it's not an expression anymore.

"Truck Boss, Cursing Like a Sailor" (No sailors) : RIGHT
"Steamship Captain, Cursing Like a Sailor" (No sailors) WRONG

"Oil Baron" (No noblemen) RIGHT
"Castle Baron"(No noblemen) WRONG

"Pimp my Ride" (No pimps) RIGHT
"Red Light District Pimp (No pimps) WRONG

"Pride Runs Deep, Nancy & Me" (No Sailors) RIGHT
"Pride Runs Deep, Submarine Sim" (No Sailors) WRONG

"Night Life, Taste my Skittles" (No Candy) RIGHT
"Taste my Skittles, Chef Tycoon" (No Candy) WRONG

"Outlaw: Running Like a Chicken" (No poultry) RIGHT
"Barnyard Tales: Running Like a Chicken" (No poultry) WRONG

"Farmer's Dynasty" (No medieval dynasty) RIGHT
"Medieval Dynasty" (No medieval dynasty) WRONG



Again... change a few words inside the game so the quest and titles match up, maybe tweak something... and then the title fits. That's like a weekend's worth of work. I agree it is only an opinion that this stuff matters... but it's not an opinion that it is a literal mis-match.... when it doesn't have to be.

Lastly... there is no such thing as a village leader peasant... unless you mean the one's caught and hung by the King.

[Lord von Games]

Originally posted by TheRealMuehle:

DAMN!
'21 ! Same guy!
Replied 2x, myself!
And then he's close to 90h, now?
HOW?!? Am I the only one calling 90h in a game just taking a short glimpse?!

I never said I hate the game. I bought the game in an incredibly rough state in Sep of 2020, and have seen it go through AMAZING changes. I support the game, and with such little work, the game, the title, the immersion, and all the other opinions on this - all the groups (in this context), can be happy.

Indeed, I've been a supporter of this publisher for some time now.