Bronze item... useless for NPC craft?

[Veny]

I am confused to be honest. I do not see any reason why should i autocraft them through smithy. I need to smelt tin bars, copper bars, bronze bars and then tools. It takes much more time to craft it all and in the end, bronze tools have slightly better stat than copper ones but if i consider crafting times (and other factors like the fact that i have to mine not only copper but also tin) it is still better to craft copper tools. OR?

[invivo4u]

You don't need to craft any bronze tools or items; copper arrows and hammers are the only copper items required (as far as I can tell). The house renovation quest requires a copper hammer (I carry some in my saddle bags when I check out quests). The "time to hunt" quest sometimes requires copper arrows (or stone arrows). Other than that, I haven't seen the need for copper. Iron takes care of most requirements. The need for tin is minimal if at all. I haven't encountered any quest requiring bronze items.

[Mouse]

Originally posted by Veny:

I am confused to be honest. I do not see any reason why should i autocraft them through smithy. I need to smelt tin bars, copper bars, bronze bars and then tools. It takes much more time to craft it all and in the end, bronze tools have slightly better stat than copper ones but if i consider crafting times (and other factors like the fact that i have to mine not only copper but also tin) it is still better to craft copper tools. OR?

Durability and crafting points. that is what u get, the faster u go the faster u can reach iron if u only mine cooper will be everlasting mining yourself.

[felmari]

you can craft more but is short lived.

after i get bronze i make leftover copper to make things to sell.

[Veny]

Originally posted by invivo4u:

You don't need to craft any bronze tools or items; copper arrows and hammers are the only copper items required (as far as I can tell). The house renovation quest requires a copper hammer (I carry some in my saddle bags when I check out quests). The "time to hunt" quest sometimes requires copper arrows (or stone arrows). Other than that, I haven't seen the need for copper. Iron takes care of most requirements. The need for tin is minimal if at all. I haven't encountered any quest requiring bronze items.

Compared to stone tools, copper tools have better durability so i dont have to craft so many of them which saves me workers i would use for smithing and i also save some sticks and logs. Benefit of these items are clear. Which cannot be said about bronze ones.

[Kwalyz]

Bronze pickaxes will last longer than stone pickaxes for you and your miners (extraction hut and mine - if you’ve unlocked mines but not the ability to make iron tools.)
You will need to use less hits to harvest ore/rock with a bronze pickaxe in comparison to a stone pickaxe.
You can not make copper pickaxes.

[Veny]

Originally posted by Kwalyz:

Bronze pickaxes will last longer than stone pickaxes for you and your miners (extraction hut and mine - if you’ve unlocked mines but not the ability to make iron tools.)
You will need to use less hits to harvest ore/rock with a bronze pickaxe in comparison to a stone pickaxe.
You can not make copper pickaxes.

But still, NPCs do not care how much durability item has. I can craft bronze ones for myself but crafting through smithy NPC takes so long. I have to smelt copper bars, tin bars, these into bronze bars and then craft something. Instead of crafting bronze i can just order some stone pickaxes and if i need some bronze for myself (i dont really mine, NPCs to that well), i can craft few myself.
If bronze bar was made of tin ore and copper ore, it would make bronze stuff much more useful but because i need two different bars smelted into one new, it makes bronze items very inefficient.

[Capuzzi09]

Originally posted by Veny:

But still, NPCs do not care how much durability item has. I can craft bronze ones for myself but crafting through smithy NPC takes so long. I have to smelt copper bars, tin bars, these into bronze bars and then craft something. Instead of crafting bronze i can just order some stone pickaxes and if i need some bronze for myself (i dont really mine, NPCs to that well), i can craft few myself.
If bronze bar was made of tin ore and copper ore, it would make bronze stuff much more useful but because i need two different bars smelted into one new, it makes bronze items very inefficient.

They do not care, right. They just use what you give them.

BUT:
Bronze tools have much more HP (hit/health points) compared to copper tools, which of course means they last much longer.
So yes, your blacksmith needs a bit more time to make bronze tools. Especially considering he has to make 1st copper ingots, 2nd tin ingots and 3rd bronze ingots.
However, it pays off in the end because the blacksmith only has to produce half the tools (or even less) compared to the number of copper tools your NPCs would consume in the same amount of time to do the same job.
If you have your blacksmith produce just enough to meet the NPCs' demand, he will end up spending less time producing the tools needed for a given demand and so he will have some free time to do other things, such as producing things you might want to sell.
Of course, you have to determine the actual demand for tools before you can match production exactly to demand.

Just in case you didn't notice, some health points of certain tools, copper vs. bronze:

knife: copper 150 hp - bronze 450 hp
axe: copper 200 hp - bronze 450 hp
shovel: copper 200 hp - bronze 450 hp
hoe: copper 250 hp - bronze 550 hp

As you can see, bronze tools have more twice as much hp as copper tools have. This reduces needed amount of tools to get the current NPC's workload done by mor than 50%. In case of knifes bronze tools last even 3 times longer than copper knifes do.
Think about it, it pays off in the end. It really does.

[simeon]

I would like to add to what Capuzzi wrote above:

1.
They look just great and add diversity.

2.
Despite they are at some point efficiency-wise factly outnumbered by iron, when you get to the late game optimising, decorating, beautifying, etc. you may want to have visual and contextual diversity.

I’m (for example) still working on the goal to have everything yield-able/craft-able/produceable produced in a steady small surplus by my community, using the surpluses for decorating and, if not needed, selling.

[Veny]

Originally posted by Capuzzi09:

As you can see, bronze tools have more twice as much hp as copper tools have. This reduces needed amount of tools to get the current NPC's workload done by more than 50%. In case of knifes bronze tools last even 3 times longer than copper knifes do.
Think about it, it pays off in the end. It really does.

I made a math again and... i must say you are right. While the initial dillution of worker performance (smelting 3 bars instead of 1, mining two ores instead of one) look scary, the increased durability more than compensates that. Not by much but still, there is some benefit.

[Capuzzi09]

Originally posted by Veny:

I made a math again and... i must say you are right. While the initial dillution of worker performance (smelting 3 bars instead of 1, mining two ores instead of one) look scary, the increased durability more than compensates that. Not by much but still, there is some benefit.

This.
I have tried it in a rather small village and although there are only about 45 people living there, the benefits are already visible.
I have a habit of matching the production of tools as closely as possible to demand. This way, I can use the free workload from the smithy, for example, to produce items from which good money can be earned, or I simply produce less stuff and thus save on materials. Because as long as I haven't unlocked the mine, I have to carry the ores to my village myself - the less of it I need, the easier it is for me.
The benefit of bronze is, of course, greater the larger your village. Of course, at a certain point you will end up with iron tools, as they are still much more efficient, but bronze tools are still a very good step in between, in my opinion.

[Veny]

The initial impression is really spooky. Almost 70% of my smiths job is creating bars, rest is evenly distributed making tools. 0,3 tool per day made by two smiths... 6 smiths, 3 buildings, 1 tool per day. Sounds like not much but in the end... it is enough :D

[Capuzzi09]

I'm not sure how much you're a fan of micromanagement but I somehow got the idea you don't dislike it at all. ;)

If so, then this tool might be helpful. It's a pretty powerful Excel spreadsheet and the first of a total of 4 tabs contains a kind of manual that I highly recommend reading. I mean - really read it... xD

You will find there an Excel automatic that helps you to adjust the overall production of pretty much anything you can think of according to the need at hand.
For example, it's very helpful if you want to check how many of a certain tool per day your NPCs really need and stuff....

I'll put the link here if you're interested. If not - just leave it where it is :)

Edit: if any other player is interested in a high-lvl data management sheet to calculate the needs and productions of their village, everyone is welcome to use the sheet as they like, of course. :)

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ljcj8h5goj27fxs/AACWkP1ueXmpoSvypsSrdW-ua

There are two versions to download, German and English. Both are adapted to the latest official game version.

[simeon]

I took the freedom to take a look. :)

Without words I’m speechless.
My high respects to the creator(s)!
And a huge thank you for sharing!

So the version number is v1.2.0.1 because the data has not changed since?

If this will not be implemented in the game somehow, this sheet could may be adapted to a web-form/small website for people without excel, helping those players who like optimising the management part of the game.

Again, my very deep compliments regarding the efforts put in this ‘machine’.

[Capuzzi09]

Originally posted by simeon:

So the version number is v1.2.0.1 because the data has not changed since?

This.
I think the windmill was added after 1.2.x I'm really not sure right now... Anyway, the sheet covers the latest valid data as it's used in the game.

It is a very helpful tool, the author is r00t (toplitz discord) and I have helped him with some extensive field testing (along with a number of other volunteer testers).

I agree with you, what r00t has provided us with this excel spreadsheet is at a very high level.

We have spent a lot of time testing it from every possible angle and have tried to cover as many different settings as possible, so I am sure that the latest version is as bug-free as a data sheet can be.

I hope this sheet proves useful. Feel free to spread the link and help other players who might be interested to find it.

[simeon]

Indeed!
Could not have said it better myself.
So compliments to r00t and the helping hands.

I saved the link, and will test it with my village, as soon as I have found out how to convert it without formula losses. May OpenOffice is worth a try.
And if nothing works, I’m going to get excel. :)