If a character dies will it be permanent?

[MoNKeZi]

This is something I've been longing for in a Fantasy RPG for so long where like XCOM if one of your characters die, it is gone forever (unless you can resurrect) and your party must find a new adventurer to join the party.

[Myzzrym]

Death management is still getting discussed, this is one of the options we are considering.

[Alien]

In most tabletop non-gore fantasy RPGs permanent death is a thing, but it's rare. Most often it happens for "scripted deaths" that serve the scenario (or because a players wants to reroll...).

But sometimes a character is unlucky or makes a stupid decision, is knocked out, fails the save throws, the other characters fail to save him (their medicine checks etc.), and also fail to bring their corpse to a powerful priest that will bring them back.

I think it's nice to be able to save a PC after a battle, and even have the possibility to fail so you need to resurrect them, but I don't know if it's worth it to lose a character entirely. If someone wants to roleplay so lost characters can't be brought back at all, they would just need to not use resurrection mechanics.

That's kinda the two schools in video game RPGs: either all "killed" characters wake up at the end of the fight and suffer injuries (DA:O), or you need res spells to bring them back (D:OS).
The mention of XCOM is apt, because XCOM is designed around the possibility to have your soldiers killed.

[fischpony]

Please keep a WISH in mind, or a powerful cleric, which can awake a dead character. In my years of pen+paper playing (AD+D2nd) it was VERY helpful. Sometime as a fun for the gamemaster to make a special adventure for the other characters in order to help the fallen one..

[MoNKeZi]

Originally posted by AlienSpectator:

In most tabletop non-gore fantasy RPGs permanent death is a thing, but it's rare. Most often it happens for "scripted deaths" that serve the scenario (or because a players wants to reroll...).

I don't know about most, I only know about my own table top groups over the years and in most cases, permanent death was definitely a thing in low to mid level games as player characters would rarely have enough gold to pay for a resurrection/raise dead. This made reaching the lofty heights of level 14+ all that more special because you effectively "made it" and only in the rarest occasions could your character die permanently.

Originally posted by AlienSpectator:

But sometimes a character is unlucky or makes a stupid decision, is knocked out, fails the save throws, the other characters fail to save him (their medicine checks etc.), and also fail to bring their corpse to a powerful priest that will bring them back.

Which is fine. Allow save scummers to reload their quick saves if they can't bare to lose their favourite PC (many people do this in XCOM too).

Originally posted by AlienSpectator:

I think it's nice to be able to save a PC after a battle, and even have the possibility to fail so you need to resurrect them, but I don't know if it's worth it to lose a character entirely. If someone wants to roleplay so lost characters can't be brought back at all, they would just need to not use resurrection mechanics.

Which is why D&D had bleeding mechanics all those years ago. You get reduced to zero health, you are unconscious; if you are reduced below zero, you lose 1hp/round until bandaged or healed; you reach -10 hp and you are dead.

Originally posted by AlienSpectator:

That's kinda the two schools in video game RPGs: either all "killed" characters wake up at the end of the fight and suffer injuries (DA:O), or you need res spells to bring them back (D:OS).

DA:O was a watered down Baldur's Gate. Sure it had a fancy story and was cutting edge RPG of it's time but it was and always will be a watered down Baldur's Gate.

DO:S and DO:S2 really pushed the envelope on bringing back the old school elements to
video game RPGs. They are a great example on doing things right.

Originally posted by AlienSpectator:

The mention of XCOM is apt, because XCOM is designed around the possibility to have your soldiers killed.

Which is why I am posing the question now, while the game is still in pre-alpha. A fantasy RPG can be designed around the possibility of losing party members. Taverns are great places to recruit new player created characters and Baldur's Gate and many other RPGs like BG had playable NPC's scattered throughout the world ready to be recruited by players.

Where I feel Baldur's Gate and many other RPGs go wrong is when they have a protagonist that ends the game if they are killed. In games such as The Witcher, this is understandable as you are playing Geralt of Rivia and the games are specifically about that character.

Dungeon crawling RPGs should be designed around the premise that the hero might die but could still be replaced by another as it is the overall group or party that is on the adventure and if there is no death, there is no fear or risk and if there is no fear or risk then it is just an interactive story, not a game.

[deuxhero]

Is raise dead in 5e's OGL content? If not they could always port the 3E version.

[KentDA]

The problem inherent to perma-death is that you run afoul of how to write a story that can handle a character being gone permanently.

Now if the characters are faceless and generic, its not an issue. But faceless and generic heroes run afoul of their own issues, namely a story that lacks some of the oomph needed to drive the players forward.

So there is an issue from a story standpoint about permanent non-scripted character deaths. It can be done, but its not exactly something easy to handle.