Siding with songbird makes no sense

[UnlivingEnd]

First of all: You’re not really betraying songbird as she had intended to use and dispose of you from the very beginning.

If you think about it logically, siding with her makes no sense. Songbird is mentally unstable due to the influence of her illness which makes her unreliable at best and completely untrustworthy at worst.

Are we supposed to be on her side because the game tries as hard as it can to endear her to us? Because it’s completely undercut by the fact that she only intended to use V as a tool to get what she wants while screwing him over. Morally she’s just as reprehensible as the rest of the characters in the dlc.
Why exactly are we supposed to help her? Because feewings? Sorry sweetheart, I’m not about to risk my life for someone I can’t trust at all just because you have a sad backstory that was your own damn fault anyway.

[Bishop-Six]

****Spoiler comment****






I agree and if you choose that way to not help her and having no feelings for her many dialogues and cutscenes with her are getting weird and possible responses not fitting.

Its clearly intended that we like her on an emotional basis which is funny because all the agent and spy stuff totally contradict that.

But like it is nowadays. Songbird is way worse than Fingers for example. Yet everybody is hating him and most people love her. Just to remember: Her plan to escape kills dozens if not hundreds civilians in the stadium, yet most people excuse this with her being the "poor victim". She knows it will happen but she doesnt care. Same with V and the betrayal. Plus she did lots of crimes as agent for Myers too, its not like she had no choice.
On the other side Fingers is helping prostitutes and the forgotten humans on the streets where no one else is caring about. Yes he makes his business with that but he is neither a murderer, psychopath or anything else. His problem is that he is portrayed "ugly" who is acting "bad against females". Funny enough that people think when he is taking physical payment from prostitutes (which is their job btw) that this makes him to a monster who deserves to get killed.


Im not sure how far i want to go into detail about that, but i guess you get my hints.

[ShelLuser]

I disagree, and here's why....

Sure, So Mi manipulates you. But it's not out of malice but pure despair. Not to mention that she's truly grateful and also feels really bad about betraying V. Who she also truly trusts... allowing V to jack into her system multiple times should not be taken lightly!

IMO it makes no sense to side with Reed. All he does is manipulate you, he lies to you and on top of that he's hardly the pro he makes himself out to be, like he does during your first meet. I mean, seriously... his first OP and what does he do? He screws it up and allows himself to get captured like an amateur. Meanwhile you, the real rookie NIA amateur "only" manages to get profile imprints of 2 people at the same time and you also manage to pull it off. Do you get any praise? Of course not!

Siding with Reed equals being a nice puppet to help cover up Meyers screw ups, not to mention her blatant disrespect for the international cyberlaws. Not to mention the local NC laws... I mean... "only" invadingn the spaceport? That's pure oppression at work.

And you want to side with that piece of work? No thanks!

[Bishop-Six]

Originally posted by ShelLuser:

I disagree, and here's why....

Sure, So Mi manipulates you. But it's not out of malice but pure despair. Not to mention that she's truly grateful and also feels really bad about betraying V. Who she also truly trusts... allowing V to jack into her system multiple times should not be taken lightly!

IMO it makes no sense to side with Reed. All he does is manipulate you, he lies to you and on top of that he's hardly the pro he makes himself out to be, like he does during your first meet. I mean, seriously... his first OP and what does he do? He screws it up and allows himself to get captured like an amateur. Meanwhile you, the real rookie NIA amateur "only" manages to get profile imprints of 2 people at the same time and you also manage to pull it off. Do you get any praise? Of course not!

Siding with Reed equals being a nice puppet to help cover up Meyers screw ups, not to mention her blatant disrespect for the international cyberlaws. Not to mention the local NC laws... I mean... "only" invadingn the spaceport? That's pure oppression at work.

And you want to side with that piece of work? No thanks!

Bad things are bad things. If you break law the police dont care if you did it because of despair. Just an example. The intention isnt important for your actions, the results are.

[GoldInfinit7]

I don’t get how you know her intentions given what was revealed up to that point. It’s like you’re taking what you know after completing phantom liberty and then doing a hindsight 20/20.

[ShelLuser]

Originally posted by GoldInfinit7:

I don’t get how you know her intentions given what was revealed up to that point. It’s like you’re taking what you know after completing phantom liberty and then doing a hindsight 20/20.

Correct, but that should be a given anyway I'd say. Because the same applies to Reed and Meyers.

[Flamboyant]

On my 1st run i killed song only cus i truly believed that reed gonna protect her and take care of her better than herself since shes a walking ticking bomb

Sadly right before pulling the plug its clear that fia will just continue to use her as a weapon, so i kinda regret siding with reed, however i think that this decision should have made an impact on Johnny considering how he draws similarities between him and reed, talkin about how blinded they both are/were
Also if u betray song and confront her about using V, she admits everything and cries about how sorry she is, so i guess in any case, betrayal or not, devs just expect some empathy from u

[Tokenn]

I sided with Songbird (first playthrough) because I was outraged by what Reed and Alex did to the Cassell twins. Second playthrough I sided with Reed and I was surprised by how differently things proceeded from there. IMO both endings are valid and worthwhile to play.

[FableBlaze]

Originally posted by GoldInfinit7:

I don’t get how you know her intentions given what was revealed up to that point. It’s like you’re taking what you know after completing phantom liberty and then doing a hindsight 20/20.

Imo, there are signs. For me the tipping point was the moment she basically said that a lot of people dying is fine because we will survive. Made me think that the only difference between me and the people dying is that she still needs me. Made me think I'm still being used. It should be at least enough to make you doubt her. Meanwhile, I see no reason to think that Reed is playing you, the only doubt is if his superiors keep their word or not.

[Lil Grandpa]

I'm conflicted in how I feel about her too, but the alternative is sending her to the CIA glowies so that she can traipse through the blackwall and have her entire being hollowed out and lose all her memories due to mingling with malevolent rogue AI. Yeah, it hurt to help her, but I think that's the point.

[Vela Darney]

Duuude, I'd side with friggin' Arasaka and promise to be their obedient slave for all eternity before I'd side with that ♥♥♥♥♥ Myers or anyone associated with her ...

[Irinka]

We've had this discussion several times on the forums so im just gonna copy and paste my response from another thread

Siding with Song is better imo. But I kinda love the fact both paths aren't black and white like The Witcher 3 dlc where it's extremely clear which is the best ending

Song has ben turned into a weapon/tool. Myers forcing her to use the Blackwall for her political agenda. And as she said herself "Weapons don't get to have an opinion or retire" Myers literally violates international laws and shoots up the entire orbital space center to get her back. So Mi is desperate she is slowly losing herself to the Blackwall becoming more AI than human "A snowflake lands on my glove, I can calculate it's unique fractal structure... but what did my mom's voice sound like?" So can you really blame her for lying? Besides she does end up telling you the truth. She could've easily not told you anything until she is safe or straight up never but she does, proving that deep down she trusts you and cares

Helping her represents an act of empathy and compassion, aligning with a more humanistic approach to the story which is exactly how I always play my V

Also the whole game has this anti-authoritarian theme. So siding with the NUSA/Militech felt extremely anti climatic to me. While supporting Song felt as an act of rebellion against them

Helping Song offers a path toward redemption, not just for her but potentially for V as well
offering a chance to do genuine good in a bleak and dystopian world

Also never liked "metagaming" breaks the immersion for me. So picking Reed just because I know Song lies to me makes no sense since V doesn't know that and in Reed's path you never actually discover it

Also gameplay and story wise I like her final quest way more. Infiltrating the space center, getting the "Objective: Survive" while V faces an army of Spec Ops. With the amazing OST "Contra la Luna". Using the blackwall, getting the revelation from Song and then having a cowboy showdown with Reed. Literally a total rollercoaster

So in summary siding with Song not only aligns with the game's themes of resistance against oppressive forces and corporate greed, but it also provides an opportunity for empathy and redemption in a world often devoid of such possibilities

[Ciaran Zagami]

Songbird is very impulsive and survival oriented. In some ways she reminds me of Johnny just after he wakes up. especially the bit when he tried to brain V against the window.

The difference is when V took the Omega Blockers Johnny was forced to slow down and think about things. And he realised how awful this all is for V and how much he hates the idea of taking over V's mind and body.

Songbird never had that opportunity. She just kept digging herself deeper and hurting more and more people along the way. I have no sympathy for her character whatsoever and I can't help but think that was sort of intentional. You were meant to side with her out of a desire to survive at all costs. Not out of sympathy. Its not until the very end when she's physically trapped inside the Cynosure sphere and no longer has the strength to move that she's forced to think about her actions. And then like a child she decides to kill herself rather than face the consequences. Only she literally doesn't even have the strength to do that. So she asks V instead.

I personally think she's quite believable and realistic. But I still hate her. She's a great villain. One whose motives make sense, but the consequences of their actions are morally wrong.


Siding with her also makes very little sense in character. Yeah she has the Macguffin AI. But V has no reason to think a Blackwall AI can help them. If you've already beaten the base game. You know that Alt plans to use Soul Killer to make a digital copy of V, delete Johnny and then just install V on the Relic. So that the Relic replaces mortal V with digital V.

But V has no way of knowing that in character.

[Irinka]

Originally posted by Ciaran Zagami:

Songbird is very impulsive and survival oriented. In some ways she reminds me of Johnny just after he wakes up. especially the bit when he tried to brain V against the window.

The difference is when V took the Omega Blockers Johnny was forced to slow down and think about things. And he realised how awful this all is for V and how much he hates the idea of taking over V's mind and body.

Songbird never had that opportunity. She just kept digging herself deeper and hurting more and more people along the way. I have no sympathy for her character whatsoever and I can't help but think that was sort of intentional. You were meant to side with her out of a desire to survive at all costs. Not out of sympathy. Its not until the very end when she's physically trapped inside the Cynosure sphere and no longer has the strength to move that she's forced to think about her actions. And then like a child she decides to kill herself rather than face the consequences. Only she literally doesn't even have the strength to do that. So she asks V instead.

I personally think she's quite believable and realistic. But I still hate her. She's a great villain. One whose motives make sense, but the consequences of their actions are morally wrong.


Siding with her also makes very little sense in character. Yeah she has the Macguffin AI. But V has no reason to think a Blackwall AI can help them. If you've already beaten the base game. You know that Alt plans to use Soul Killer to make a digital copy of V, delete Johnny and then just install V on the Relic. So that the Relic replaces mortal V with digital V.

But V has no way of knowing that in character.

It always surprises me how people see her as the villain of the story. Not even Hansen is the villain. I think the game makes it pretty clear that the true villain is Myers but maybe that's just me

[Talilover]

Just beat PL and got the ending of sending her to the moon, which I see is the most popular choice according to steam achievements, and can really explain my reasoning with 2 points.

1. I get it. Sure she lied to us to save her own skin but honestly who wouldn't? Think about the things V has done and the graveyards they've filled just to save their life, it's up to player decision but you can do some really nasty stuff and it still makes sense in a way. She's not malicious, seeing as some worthless pawn or something, she just wants to live and that's big mood
2. Meyers can just go kick rocks, just a massive ♥♥♥♥.

[Mander]

I believe the focus is wrong. Or at least, the frame is.
Cyberpunk as a genre is one where everyone is reprehensible. Has So Mi killed dozens if not hundreds with her half-baked plans?
And how many as V did we already kill in game? Thousands?
So, really, I don’t think we’ve that much more moral high ground. And being an edgerunner (with a cause), we’re used already to be used by fixers and clients. It is literally in the job description.

Helping So Mi or not comes down therefore to how we’ve lived the story through our V eyes: So Mi was damned because of her netrunning talent in her early years just as we as V, damned our and Jackie’s life with our ambition.
It’s not an uncommon story at all in the setting.
Therefore, “my” Vs choose to help So Mi because it’s just what they wished for themselves. They hoped desperately in a hero, a savior...
But because Night City deprives us of a “Personal Jesus”, we can only be one for others, even multiple times (Panam for example). So Mi is just another person we can help, in the end. And so, why refusing the call?
In a greater scope, in the world of cold logic, I also believe that removing So Mi from N-USA clutches is mandatory. When it came out that Songbird was poking through the Blackwall , my decision was already set: via luna shuttle or via bullet to the brain, So Mi had to be freed.
I sleep much more serene in my night city bed, knowing Mayers doesn’t have access anymore to THAT resource.