Plot is intolerably stupid

[Stray952]

Obviously spoilers ahead, don’t read if you’re worried about the plot of this 2yrold game.

I actually really like this game now that you can mod away uhh… basically the entire gear system and leveling system.

But I gotta say… Jesus the main plot is bad. Was there no one in the writing room in charge of continuity?

Like Jesus man, everything conflicts with everything else the characters say.

You find Sandra Dorset submerged in water and unconscious and you revive her with no issues - you get a biomon later, you know what it does - but Saboru Arasaka dies because a dude chokes him for 6 seconds?

Takemura who’s the one-man secret service team can’t detect people behind glass? Then when he escorts his VIP to a CONFLICT with a family member and leaves the room, he comes back to find his client dead, with blood on his head and choke marks on his neck. Off to find the mystery poisoners… poisoners of what? It’s not like he ate anything while there. He then spends the rest of his life trying to get back into the corp.

So T-bug could stop the AI and all the cameras from knowing V and J were in the penthouse, but couldn’t block/divert the red alert from going up? You know the thing that drew so much attention she was immediately killed?

There’s an elevator and a landing pad on the roof… and Bug died trying to open a glass door so that we could… stand on a ledge in front of helicopters like obvious criminals. Literally better off sitting in the TV for a few hours, no one’s looking in Yaris room.

Evelyn, a career prostitute, who voluntarily got a doll implant, commits suicide because a gross dude had sex with her while she was in a coma AND in toy mode. The game specifically says that they have no memory of the trauma they experience as dolls. Whether they do or not, why is Woodman the one penis too far?

Jackie dies in delamain because he has plot vulnerability. I get that healing as a game mechanic needs to exist and that characters still need to die, but Jack literally bleeds out inside a delamain for no reason. When you’re taken to Viks by Takemura, the Delamain literally puts you on life support. Blood loss is a dumb reason to die with today’s technology. Why would his heart stopping even be a big deal?

Then there’s like the core dumb stuff. The chip makes no sense and just does whatever the writers want it to. It needs to be cold, quick stick it in a 98* human. An entire consciousness is on the chip but it’s in a box the size of a lobster tank that emulates a cold body(?)

V is going to die because of his immune system…. But everyone in this universe has literal foreign bodies in their system and take immunoblockers.


V not being able to be saved is pure contrivance. I think it’s good that the character dies at the end, idgaf about V, he’s just as stupid as everyone else. But kill him for like… reasons. Not because the art director imagined him dying a certain way and so you just half-heartedly put a few lines of dialogue into making it happen.

It’s barely better than Fawkes telling you that you have to go into the reactor at the end of FO4. There are more chips, technology is expensive to develop… but there is no reason the chip would be expensive to make. Like, literally whatever process was started to turn V into Johnny there’s no logical reason you couldn’t just restart that process with V.

The whole engram/dark net thing is just SO DUMB. Why was Yari even giving Johnny to Net Watch? Why did Net Watch want him? To keep the VDB from using him? Well they can’t if Yari doesn’t put Johnny on the chip for NetWatch! And why Johnny? He isn’t even the guy who blew up the tower.

The whole concept of the black wall is just such an obvious analog for another plane of existence - a relic of DnD - but in CP world it makes no sense.

The game makes it very clear that the engrams are just a replica of your neural makeup. There’s NO REASON to free people from Mikoshi, they aren’t souls, the net isn’t an afterlife. That’s like raiding the pentagon to free your google history…

And specifically Why TF would you help Alt? At all? She’s a crazy AI, she doesn’t even care about you or Johnny (because she’s a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ AI not a ghost). I don’t care how much Johnny hates ‘Saka - V has 0 reason to hate them and either way, it’s not worth teaming up with AIs who have no interest in whether all of humanity survives.

Lastly, but certainly not least, Johnny is already a f’n engram. Why, TF is it sad for him to go into the net? Because he’ll be changed? Well if he doesn’t want to change put him back on a server or whatever they had him on in Mikoshi! This whole conflict is totally contrived, and this forced thing they do in the endings where we’re supposed to like… feel like one or the other sacrificed themselves makes no sense. V has every right to die instead of being turned into a cyber-ghost. Most people die. They’re fine. The presumption that V is supposed to let Alt kill him now instead of dying later is absurd. And what’s the upside? So that Johnny can walk around in Johnny-skin for a couple years? The game also makes it clear that AIs can already take human form. Why take Johnny out at all? What impact does that have on anything? Leave them both in there, when V dies, Johnny gets the body. Maybe they find some tech along the way that can save V or merge with Johnny like Gogeta or something. Why does any of this need to be decided right now? Can’t Alt just come back later when V’s almost dead.

Oh man I shouldn’t have laid all this out, going to be hard to enjoy the game now. Ok gotta stop thinking about how stupid all of this is.

Who is fitting the power bill for all the equipment that runs the dark net?!? Just turn off the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ equipment!

[CynicalMT™]

Because the plot isnt supposed to action and murder everywhere, its about v and johnny, redemption for johnny and popularity for v
if jackie never died the plot wouldnt even exist, depending on how you play the game and which life path you choose there is a different plot writing and endings for most if you think about it, you can see how both v and johhny and others are different at the end of the game
its more psychological if you think about it

[President Cthulhu]

The game is a metaphor in essence.

V dies the moment she receives a bullet to the head from Dex. This is the end for the average chooms in NC. The game's story after that is in essence coming to terms with death. The tarot reading you receive from Misty reveals V is about to go through transformation (it is death).

In the endings:
Suicide -> Coward's way out, it is important to have the option though as we as players learn Johnny would not have taken her body no matter the cost if it was for him
Nomad -> V comes to terms with her death and chooses to live her last days surrounded by family and friends freely
Legend -> V comes to terms with her death and decided to become a legend of NC to be remembered by (essentially following Jackie's dream)
Saka -> V refuses to come to terms with her death and makes a deal with the devil, betraying everything and everyone in order to get saved. When it fails she either embraces death after all realizing how far and alone she got from "Earth" aka herself, singing Never fade away to herself OR pushes further and accepts a shot at immortality selling her literal soul.
Temperance -> V comes to term with her death and offers a chance of redemption for Johnny (essentially like reincarnation, others call it buddhist ending).

And this is only the endings.

[CynicalMT™]

Първоначално публикувано от President Cthulhu:

The game is a metaphor in essence.

V dies the moment she receives a bullet to the head from Dex. This is the end for the average chooms in NC. The game's story after that is in essence coming to terms with death. The tarot reading you receive from Misty reveals V is about to go through transformation (it is death).

In the endings:
Suicide -> Coward's way out, it is important to have the option though as we as players learn Johnny would not have taken her body no matter the cost if it was for him
Nomad -> V comes to terms with her death and chooses to live her last days surrounded by family and friends freely
Legend -> V comes to terms with her death and decided to become a legend of NC to be remembered by (essentially following Jackie's dream)
Saka -> V refuses to come to terms with her death and makes a deal with the devil, betraying everything and everyone in order to get saved. When it fails she either embraces death after all realizing how far and alone she got from "Earth" aka herself, singing Never fade away to herself OR pushes further and accepts a shot at immortality selling her literal soul.
Temperance -> V comes to term with her death and offers a chance of redemption for Johnny (essentially like reincarnation, others call it buddhist ending).

And this is only the endings.

Temperance is actually such an under rated ending, it is amazing especially when you choose to attack arasaka tower with rouge the ending has more emotion then

[Stray952]

Първоначално публикувано от TVMAN:

Oh, Woodman wasn't the thing that drove Evelyn to commit suicide. After Woodman, it was Fingers. After Fingers sold her off, she was sold to Scavengers, who repeatedly did all sorts of monstrous and vile things to her in order to make BDs. She was aware of all of it.

Ok maybe I totally misunderstand what they say in the game then, because the VDBs hit her with a virus that nearly killed her. She is then comatose, basically going to die without expensive medical intervention. Woodman doesn’t want to spend the money and they can still puppet her around ONLY because of the doll implant. So they use her for disrespectful fun times - and ostensibly are like using the doll software to make her eat, poop and wipe her ass. People using the doll software are not aware of what is going on and even if they were Eve is comatose, so double unaware.

Like the whole situation is created because she was non-functional BUT wasn’t just left to die because the doll implant still made her useful.

You find her and she is still catatonic. Bring her back to Judy, who magically can fix the VDB-virus damage without surgery. While doing this Judy find evidence of abuse and is mad about it.

Like, Evelyn already had sex with people as a doll and couldn’t remember it. Even if Woodman/Fingers/Scavs could make Evelyn aware of being tortured… why would they? The whole situation exists because she’s basically a vegetable. And why would Evelyn care?

Idk seems like a lot of holes to me.

[Stray952]

Първоначално публикувано от Titan Awaken:

Not going to go blow by blow so I’ll just address one point.

Първоначално публикувано от Stray952:

Jackie dies in delamain because he has plot vulnerability. I get that healing as a game mechanic needs to exist and that characters still need to die, but Jack literally bleeds out inside a delamain for no reason. When you’re taken to Viks by Takemura, the Delamain literally puts you on life support. Blood loss is a dumb reason to die with today’s technology. Why would his heart stopping even be a big deal?

Why is cardiac arrest a big deal? I dunno, maybe ask someone who has experienced cardiac arrest firsthand and get them to explain to you why (assuming they’re not already 6 feet under).

Unless if you’re Adam Smasher, aka a full on Cyborg with no organic parts except a brain, you still need a heart and circulatory system to survive. It’s biology 101.

Does Jackie look like Adam Smasher to you?

The only way you die is from oxygen not getting to your brain, like if you have a heart attack. A heart stopping should not be a big deal in a universe that can literally replace your blood with synth blood, rewrite your DNA with nanites, has AirHypos and can replace literally every piece of your body.

There’s a cyberware literally called “second heart” and you can get it at a ripper dock, which is like the equivalent of a CVS.

But he should never have bled out. 50 years ago Johnny survived being “blown in half.” A huge chunk of enemies in the game don’t even bleed.

People replace their whole ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ head. Jackie’s whole face and throat is cyberware. You have memory cards in your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ head!

You want to kill Jackie just do it in a way consistent with the universe. Blow him up, have smasher step on his gourd, have a sniper unexpectedly send a round through his heart… but bleeding out? Delamain helped do surgery on you but V can’t fashion a tourniquet from a seatbelt, Delamain doesn’t have some quick-clot laying around.

Again, you literally revive someone with an air hypo like 10 minutes before this. It’s just bad writing

[shoopy]

Del actually refused to help, and you can't tourniquet an abdominal wound. A wound which Jackie received from the drone on the ledge and had since then. He did use an airhypo which is probably why he made it out of the building to begin with.

He didn't just start dying in the cab, he already had been the whole way down.

[r.linder]

Първоначално публикувано от Stray952:

Obviously spoilers ahead, don’t read if you’re worried about the plot of this 2yrold game.

I actually really like this game now that you can mod away uhh… basically the entire gear system and leveling system.

But I gotta say… Jesus the main plot is bad. Was there no one in the writing room in charge of continuity?

Like Jesus man, everything conflicts with everything else the characters say.

You find Sandra Dorset submerged in water and unconscious and you revive her with no issues - you get a biomon later, you know what it does - but Saboru Arasaka dies because a dude chokes him for 6 seconds?

Takemura who’s the one-man secret service team can’t detect people behind glass? Then when he escorts his VIP to a CONFLICT with a family member and leaves the room, he comes back to find his client dead, with blood on his head and choke marks on his neck. Off to find the mystery poisoners… poisoners of what? It’s not like he ate anything while there. He then spends the rest of his life trying to get back into the corp.

So T-bug could stop the AI and all the cameras from knowing V and J were in the penthouse, but couldn’t block/divert the red alert from going up? You know the thing that drew so much attention she was immediately killed?

There’s an elevator and a landing pad on the roof… and Bug died trying to open a glass door so that we could… stand on a ledge in front of helicopters like obvious criminals. Literally better off sitting in the TV for a few hours, no one’s looking in Yaris room.

Evelyn, a career prostitute, who voluntarily got a doll implant, commits suicide because a gross dude had sex with her while she was in a coma AND in toy mode. The game specifically says that they have no memory of the trauma they experience as dolls. Whether they do or not, why is Woodman the one penis too far?

Jackie dies in delamain because he has plot vulnerability. I get that healing as a game mechanic needs to exist and that characters still need to die, but Jack literally bleeds out inside a delamain for no reason. When you’re taken to Viks by Takemura, the Delamain literally puts you on life support. Blood loss is a dumb reason to die with today’s technology. Why would his heart stopping even be a big deal?

Then there’s like the core dumb stuff. The chip makes no sense and just does whatever the writers want it to. It needs to be cold, quick stick it in a 98* human. An entire consciousness is on the chip but it’s in a box the size of a lobster tank that emulates a cold body(?)

V is going to die because of his immune system…. But everyone in this universe has literal foreign bodies in their system and take immunoblockers.


V not being able to be saved is pure contrivance. I think it’s good that the character dies at the end, idgaf about V, he’s just as stupid as everyone else. But kill him for like… reasons. Not because the art director imagined him dying a certain way and so you just half-heartedly put a few lines of dialogue into making it happen.

It’s barely better than Fawkes telling you that you have to go into the reactor at the end of FO4. There are more chips, technology is expensive to develop… but there is no reason the chip would be expensive to make. Like, literally whatever process was started to turn V into Johnny there’s no logical reason you couldn’t just restart that process with V.

The whole engram/dark net thing is just SO DUMB. Why was Yari even giving Johnny to Net Watch? Why did Net Watch want him? To keep the VDB from using him? Well they can’t if Yari doesn’t put Johnny on the chip for NetWatch! And why Johnny? He isn’t even the guy who blew up the tower.

The whole concept of the black wall is just such an obvious analog for another plane of existence - a relic of DnD - but in CP world it makes no sense.

The game makes it very clear that the engrams are just a replica of your neural makeup. There’s NO REASON to free people from Mikoshi, they aren’t souls, the net isn’t an afterlife. That’s like raiding the pentagon to free your google history…

And specifically Why TF would you help Alt? At all? She’s a crazy AI, she doesn’t even care about you or Johnny (because she’s a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ AI not a ghost). I don’t care how much Johnny hates ‘Saka - V has 0 reason to hate them and either way, it’s not worth teaming up with AIs who have no interest in whether all of humanity survives.

Lastly, but certainly not least, Johnny is already a f’n engram. Why, TF is it sad for him to go into the net? Because he’ll be changed? Well if he doesn’t want to change put him back on a server or whatever they had him on in Mikoshi! This whole conflict is totally contrived, and this forced thing they do in the endings where we’re supposed to like… feel like one or the other sacrificed themselves makes no sense. V has every right to die instead of being turned into a cyber-ghost. Most people die. They’re fine. The presumption that V is supposed to let Alt kill him now instead of dying later is absurd. And what’s the upside? So that Johnny can walk around in Johnny-skin for a couple years? The game also makes it clear that AIs can already take human form. Why take Johnny out at all? What impact does that have on anything? Leave them both in there, when V dies, Johnny gets the body. Maybe they find some tech along the way that can save V or merge with Johnny like Gogeta or something. Why does any of this need to be decided right now? Can’t Alt just come back later when V’s almost dead.

Oh man I shouldn’t have laid all this out, going to be hard to enjoy the game now. Ok gotta stop thinking about how stupid all of this is.

Who is fitting the power bill for all the equipment that runs the dark net?!? Just turn off the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ equipment!

1. I'm of the firm belief that Saburo intended on Yorinobu killing him, because he knew he had a backup of his consciousness waiting at Arasaka Tower for the moment that he'd be installed on a Relic and put into Yorinobu's head, thus extending his lifespan through him, he never wanted to hand power over to his children.

2. Takemura never finished his scan, and he immediately suspected that Yorinobu was lying because the evidence was clear that Saburo was strangled and beaten, not poisoned. Arasaka also provided him his purpose in life and he had a lot of respect and admiration for Saburo, so he dedicated his time to avenging him.

3. T-Bug was a fairly small-time netrunner, hence why she was working with people like V and Jackie, this was their first major job and she underestimated Arasaka, especially since Arasaka was on their toes as their freaking CEO was arriving at the same time.

4. Nobody's looking in Yorinobu's room?! They were just there scanning, which they didn't finish, and they'd scan it again. And guess what? If you have the Kiroshi mod that makes enemies who have noticed you appear red on your screen, you can see that Adam Smasher knows someone is in there, he was just either dismissive of it (could be an employee working on something) or he was under orders by Saburo not to interfere with his potential plan on being killed.

5. She was aware of a lot of things happening to her, that's a fact.

6. It's a common plot device, disappointing as it may be with how they implemented it. It sets the tone.

[Leynx & Fenrir]

To be sincere, CP2077 is such a waste.

Why writers and game designers refuse to trust the world crafted by the little hands and use it properly instead of doing some fill in blanks quests and and using technology like magic in Witcher 3?

[Stray952]

Sinnerman: Proof CDPR Lost the Plot

This is the worst quest I've come across in the game.

If you wanted to force this stupid story down the audience's throat, you need to put in some more work to explain the player's lack of agency. It wouldn't have been hard. script a car wreck and have V pinned inside.

First time playing the quest I figured out the "ordinary people" were cops immediately. We chased the car around before it stopped for no reason. Knowing we were there to kill a guy I advanced on the vehicle. One cop is outside and I don't want to kill him so I pop the optical camo dart up and punch him but he won't go down.

He wastes the client, then becomes magically vulnerable and goes down. But now I've got a bunch of police stars. I go to the side of the car to execute the target. Shoot him once in the head... nothing. Ok, empty the mag, still nothing but more cops drop in. Two waves of cops come in before they down me.

Why is a quest this poorly constructed in the final state of the game?

First off, there's no point in having a quest THIS linear in this type of game, you're missing the point. Secondly, there is not nearly enough information to frame what is going on. If you want the player to sit back and do nothing, you need to add dialogue or other indicators. Even if I wanted to complete the quest as is, there's insufficient prompting to let me know what actions will progress the plot. I am just astounded something this poorly designed is in the game.

Further proof, almost every mission where you have to go up to an apartment, the fixer just handwaves V getting into the building. This is such a poor design choice. Why even send a Solo like V? If you already have access to the building just send in a random to grab the guitar or whatever. Is V uniquely suited to reading posters? If you have to kill someone and control the elevator then send 10 guys with guns, not a lone generalist.

The environment is a narrative tool that CDPR just threw away. And in their quest writing, they never seemed to ask "Why V?" I don't remember doing a bunch of stuff in The Witcher where I was confused about Geralt's value-added to the situation.

[Stray952]

You guys are wrong. Judy specifically says she doesn't know why Evelyn was scrolling the doll stuff, she guess that it was a subconscious way of hiding from what was happening, like a form of psychological regression. Obviously, the game doesn't give us enough info to say what state Evelyn was in, because if it did, the plot wouldn't work, but the info they do give is not that she was functioning, responsive or consciousl.

[Sweatington]

Compelling evidence. Those are all certainly words.

[Bahamut_A6M5]

Dismissed all the reasoning the moment OP states "We chased the car around before it stopped for no reason". There's a truck blocking off the road, ffs. Then, "First time playing the quest I figured out the "ordinary people" were cops immediately". If you knew that, if you knew client had lied to you, why did you press on with the murder attempt? Rather than turning tail (the most sensible option) or investigating the issue, you proceed with a course of action that most likely is going to bring you into the NCDP radar (and into a lot of trouble).

[grizdotcom]

ok

[Profile_Name]

yeah.

[Comrade Pickles]

How dare you insult CDPR! I'm going to write a strongly worded reply to you young man just as soon as I finish my 5209384709287346 playthrough