SPOILERS - WHAAAT, is V stupid?

[Seljdon]

Okay SPOILERS IF YOU DIDN'T READ THE TITLE - YOUR FAULT IF YOU KEEP READING AND DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW CERTAIN THINGS

Anyway Is V just stupid? His/Her problem is easily fixed. And before anyone goes off spouting for me to finish the game, yes I will eventually, and I have already watched all the endings and the variations of them too... However here is how I see the problem.

Johnny Silverhand's Engram is not just taking over V's cybernetic parts, it is actually genetically changing V's brain to be Genetically Johnny Silverhand along with all of his memories. So here is the fix. Silverhand is most likely stored on a giant engram mega server somewhere, they can make copies at will (of course the game doesn't talk about that as far as I know. But I believe this to be the case because the engrams physical construct that is in V's head is version 2.0. Which means that the proto type that Johnny was originally saved onto was moved to a 2.0 version. Thus they have his information somewhere else (want an army of Johnny Silverhands anyone?) Anyway they can take and soul kill V and save Him/Her onto a relic. Then launch it back into the port and the chip will start to genetically change V back to V along with all of their memories. What is so hard about this?

[Defective Dopamine Pez Dispenser]

Almost exactly that constitutes one of the game's possible endings. The catch of course is the philosophical Ship of Theseus question. E.g. is it still V if you erase the existing engram in the brain, and merely reinsert a backup copy? The game heavily implies that those who have already undergone the soulkiller process no longer see themselves as their "true" selves, but fundamentally changed in some way. This is something routinely debated, though. That said... this still doesn't stop V's body from dying regardless in the game's canon explanation of the ending. Because of irreversible damage to the brain that only allowing Johnny's engram to complete its takeover process to complete can halt.

[Seljdon]

Originally posted by Aikido:

Almost exactly that constitutes one of the game's possible endings. The catch of course is the philosophical Ship of Theseus question. E.g. is it still V if you erase the existing engram in the brain, and merely reinsert a backup copy? The game heavily implies that those who have already undergone the soulkiller process no longer see themselves as their "true" selves, but fundamentally changed in some way. This is something routinely debated, though. That said... this still doesn't stop V's body from dying regardless in the game's canon explanation of the ending. Because of irreversible damage to the brain that only allowing Johnny's engram to complete its takeover process to complete can halt.

Okay then save the engram of V and then wait out the metamorphasis. Then use soul killer to save Johnny again and then insert V back in lol

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by Aikido:

Almost exactly that constitutes one of the game's possible endings. The catch of course is the philosophical Ship of Theseus question. E.g. is it still V if you erase the existing engram in the brain, and merely reinsert a backup copy? The game heavily implies that those who have already undergone the soulkiller process no longer see themselves as their "true" selves, but fundamentally changed in some way. This is something routinely debated, though. That said... this still doesn't stop V's body from dying regardless in the game's canon explanation of the ending. Because of irreversible damage to the brain that only allowing Johnny's engram to complete its takeover process to complete can halt.

In my first ending, it was hinted that V would live on for a long long time and live happy life. This is implied in the tarot cards btw. All in all it is up for interpertation. But you are right about your take on some of the issues.

[Seljdon]

Originally posted by Aikido:

Almost exactly that constitutes one of the game's possible endings. The catch of course is the philosophical Ship of Theseus question. E.g. is it still V if you erase the existing engram in the brain, and merely reinsert a backup copy? The game heavily implies that those who have already undergone the soulkiller process no longer see themselves as their "true" selves, but fundamentally changed in some way. This is something routinely debated, though. That said... this still doesn't stop V's body from dying regardless in the game's canon explanation of the ending. Because of irreversible damage to the brain that only allowing Johnny's engram to complete its takeover process to complete can halt.

That's also the same argument for Star Trek's teleportation.

[Zebedee]

Trigger put it best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAh8HryVaeY

[Diablerie]

I asked this exact same question OP considering that v gets turned into an engram by alt anyway at the end, you'd think it'd be a matter of simply writing the engram to another biochip and allow it to rewrite V's brain again. Arasoka made the first, I am sure they could do it again

[❛❛Vénttea❜❜]

Tbh, V would never thought of that because he/she won't have all that information to begin with to know how it works. Only the player does and V's ignorance of how Soul killer and engrams works is understandable because he only understands part of the picture, not the whole picture.

The player on the other hand knows the bigger picture because of the multiple endings we go through, even then V only goes through some of those endings and still won't get the bigger picture.

"Is V stupid?" No. Also the engram is based on genetic compatibility and V's brain is unique because of the damage to his brain so it will be hard to engram to another body that shares a similar compatibility. As for the genetic change for V and Johnny, its highly difficult or near impossible to replicate because that is unknown territory. V died and Silverhand's engram acts like a second Wind and V is literally on borrowed time. Silverhand's engram is only taking over because V is dead thus making the change irreversible and inserting V's engram into Johnny V wouldn't work because Johnny is still very much alive with his own genetic makeup and altering it would be impossible because they don't have the technology to do that yet.

[Geeked]

its a frustrating premise - guess you'd have to say that engrams have an aggressive compatibility feature - something that beats the original owner - its the sort of thing Arasaka are aiming for anyways - body takeover. maybe they said that outright - but i don't remember - fuzzy on the deets - if they didn't they probably should have.

And perhaps soul takeover too? Saburo says to the public that if the body doesn't die - it is not technically murder in terms of international law. so possibly a soulless engram takes over a mind and body and since that mind never stopped being - the soul stays and gets taken over as well? Or the Heavenly Court itself swaps the souls around to stop an aberration? Arasaka would want to take spirituality seriously - possession - but not legally so - and any soul crimes would receive a celestial bailout - all bases covered.

But that engram takeover feature - makes Johnny's helpfulness sincere - instead of his mighty rockstar ego and willpower taking over poor old V's life - seemingly by alpha charisma alone - Johnny has been working his butt off to try fight the engram programming itself the whole time. 'Makes him kinda a hero after all.'

More real-to-life would be no choices - its just part of the risks of getting tech installed in your skull. Take the docs advice have a bit of a sendoff - and then a whole bunch of blue pills and heroin till the engram takes over fully and the body becomes 100% healthy. Could have been a profound endgame option - but they couldn't do that because they killed off Jackie Welles to be dramatic - and we are complete strangers to all the people we've known for years.

Yeah, it's a bummer to have a ticking clock as a dead man walking - waiting on borrowed time and fighting against 'the man and all the tropes. But it's worse to have been shown the better game just after the intro mission - that montage of a Tango and Cash buddy-merc game made me irate. I want that game - getting to know the fixers - earning their trust - getting to know the city - having a really ♥♥♥♥ car so when you get a good one it's a big deal... Well anyways - V's not stupid - his gods are.

[sling_shot]

OP... that's one of the endings, actually

[Seljdon]

Originally posted by ❛❛Liechée❜❜:

Tbh, V would never thought of that because he/she won't have all that information to begin with to know how it works. Only the player does and V's ignorance of how Soul killer and engrams works is understandable because he only understands part of the picture, not the whole picture.

The player on the other hand knows the bigger picture because of the multiple endings we go through, even then V only goes through some of those endings and still won't get the bigger picture.

"Is V stupid?" No. Also the engram is based on genetic compatibility and V's brain is unique because of the damage to his brain so it will be hard to engram to another body that shares a similar compatibility. As for the genetic change for V and Johnny, its highly difficult or near impossible to replicate because that is unknown territory. V died and Silverhand's engram acts like a second Wind and V is literally on borrowed time. Silverhand's engram is only taking over because V is dead thus making the change irreversible and inserting V's engram into Johnny V wouldn't work because Johnny is still very much alive with his own genetic makeup and altering it would be impossible because they don't have the technology to do that yet.

You didn't read what I said, I did not say another body. I said the same body. Also V does have the information. BECAUSE I am speaking about after V speaks to the doctor scientist that created the damn thing. He/She has all the information to put the pieces together. And yes they do have the technology to do it because its the engram thats doing it in the first place.

Also V is not dead, Dead means brain dead not just a heart stopped, and the heart is pumping again. What you're saying is not correct at all. You can have any opinion you want but that doesn't make it correct.

[Seljdon]

Originally posted by Zaris:

It's just lazy writing because CDPR wanted that V dies in every ending, instant or after 6 months or let Jhonny take over. The whole idea of "just insert an V engram" or "replace Johnnys data with Vs data on the chip" is valid in this scenario but totally ignored. To be honest V was already dead after Dex shot him/her after act 1 and the whole act 2 was more or less revenge against anyone with a bit "extra time" thanks to the biochip.

CDPR also seems to think that cyberpunk theme equals everyone needs to die like V, Jackie, T-Bug, Dex, Evelyn and major side npc like Saul, Rogue. The death of for example Vesemir in Witcher 3 was already clichee forced but now they totaly overdid it that i can't even care anymore about any npc here. You don't even had the chance to save even SOME of them.

Alone the deaths of Rogue and Saul were so forced and copied -> fighting through a building, every enemy dead, going through a door and Smasher teleported behind you from nowhere like the police. Smasher cop.

In any REAL rpg you would have fought besides Rogue, Saul and they would die normally in combat if you're to slow. You also could have saved T-Bug, Jackie by making good decisions during the mission like the "suicide mission" in Mass Effect 2 where your decisions let all crew members survive or half of them died otherwise. You could have killed Dex yourself or let him live and force him out of the city and for Evelyn the same.

I see some of what you're saying but its a video game. In real life people die no second chances. And sad to burst your bubble but you can save everyone. Do it alone with Johnny if you get 70% or more with Johnny reputation.

[Seljdon]

Originally posted by Point Man:

OP... that's one of the endings, actually

No it is not. In that ending the brain is genetically Johnny Silverhands and not V anymore. At least most of it. What I am saying is use another chip that holds the engram program and jam it back into the head with V on it this time and change the brain back to V genetically as well through that process. That isn't discussed at all. Let the transformation complete into Johnny and then put a new chip in that has V, shoot Johnny in the head or whatever and the new chip will take over the body and make it back to V.

[Sykrist]

In the end all you really need to know is if you belive in your sense of self and the idea of the Continuity of Consciousness will assuage your existential fears.

The Ship of Theseus conundrum is already answered from a biological standpoint. You functionally have a different body from a decade ago. Every cell in your body has died and been replaced one by one.

Continuity of Consciousness is more important to you. Basically, Engram V would remember everything up to the point that you made the choice to create the backup. Similar to what Johnny is already experiencing. It essentially asks the question, "Are you the same person who woke up this morning as the person who fell asleep last night?"

And, as Aikido mentions, Engram V is one of the endings so your idea should be possible.

[Neox]

Lazy writing means the same ending with slight flavours, I would love to have the ending where V lives on as V for good.

[Seljdon]

Originally posted by Iteriaxia:

Lazy writing means the same ending with slight flavours, I would love to have the ending where V lives on as V for good.

I was pondering, if you resist all of Johnny's ideas and do the opposite is there a second secret ending where the engram has not taken over the brain genetically mostly?