Crafting is gone?

[odanastrophe]

So... the 2.0 update just completely removes the crafting and engineering perk trees? Strips down and simplifies a bunch more of it, and adds just odd extra things that are pretty much just the anime references? This isn't an upgrade this is a railroad imo.

[dot]

Originally posted by odanastrophe:

When you remove the buff for weapons you made, discounts for crafting and upgrading, bonuses for breakdowns, then what you craft is no different than what you buy. Why bother. Looking through it again, seems like every skill tree got the same kind of railroad nerf or outright eradication. This doesn't diversify the game to make you play different, it forces you to play one of THEIR archetypes.

Railroad/nerf/eradication of what?

It forces you to play one of their archetypes? And before it didn`t? You chose what weapons or toolkits you wanted to use between the ones that they offered. I just don`t get what you mean by what you say.

If it is all about the crafting, welp, they replaced the "pull out of my ass in the middle of a mission a gun like I`m a lv 100 wizard MacGyver" for and more tech savy and can be more of a cyberware junkie than anyone else. Idk, I take the swap xD

[Blackfrost]

Originally posted by dot:

Originally posted by Blackfrost:

Nothing changed really, you will still need an automatic 18 / 20 in Tech for pretty much every single character.

How is that "need"? Has the difficulty changed? I remember a year or two ago talk about needing those Tech armor values but I never understood it... and I always played on very hard and all I remember is by the time I reached level 15 I felt OP

You don't *need* shoes to run, but you'd still wear them to go for a jog.

Previously, you required 18 Tech to get the ability to craft Legendary weapons / mods / armor if you wanted to max out offense and defense.
Not getting 18 Tech was an objectively bad choice from an optimization perspective since you were straight-up less effective: less armor, less weapon DPS, less weapon mods DPS.

With 2.0, crafting perks will be removed.

However, clothing will be purely cosmetic, and Armor Rating will be tied to Cyberware, which is itself tied to Technical Ability.

So without Technical Ability, you will have 66 fewer Cyberware slots, which means less armor and less Cyberware.

Considering how much of the mid-to-end game revolves around getting powerful Cyberware ( Kerenzikov, Optical Camo, Sandevistan, Fortified Ankles... ), plus the fact that Tech is now tied to Armor Rating, plus the fact that it has a busted Capstone, plus the fact that it has Tech Weapon skill tree, plus the fact that there are more ability scores...

Technical Ability became a must-have for any single build.
Nothing else provides this many advantages which such a low investment.

You can still play without it, but much like jogging without wearing shoes there's little incentive to do so.

[atletikus]

Originally posted by Blackfrost:

Originally posted by odanastrophe:

So... the 2.0 update just completely removes the crafting and engineering perk trees? Strips down and simplifies a bunch more of it, and adds just odd extra things that are pretty much just the anime references? This isn't an upgrade this is a railroad imo.

Before, you needed 18 in Technical Ability to get crafting perks.
Now, you need 18 in Technical Ability for Cyberware.

Nothing changed really, you will still need an automatic 18 / 20 in Tech for pretty much every single character.

The new system offers great utility for whomever invests in it, but unlike the old system - it does so without holding the best loot/equipment hostage behind a host of pure gatekeeper perks that does little for you beside making you a better crafting machine.

Albeit superficially "required trees" from an optimisation point of view, Tech in the new system is a tree many people will WANT to invest in as opposed to the old making you feel like you're FORCED to invest into it. This is a freaking YUGE difference my choom. I've had many grievances with the old clunky system, and it's plain to see the new is so much better in every way.

And please, let's not pretend that any single tree is really required anymore, if ever. There are multiple damage focused trees, there are survivability trees, and there's utility trees. You can't really invest in everything and your preferred playstyle will be the deciding factor if you let it.

[dot]

Originally posted by Blackfrost:

snip

Tech always was about armor, grenades and tech weapons, apart from allowing you to keep up all your inventory stats. Yes, Tech was already strong, and it hasn`t stopped from being strong for the looks of it. xD

My point was not to argue that xD It was that what you call "running" it was being able to piss through any combat at the max dif that the game had to offer the moment you already put all perk points in the trees of one attribute for 13 levels or so. If that is running bare foot, hell, I guess we are all here nature born amazonian tribesmen.

[Dravic]

Originally posted by Blackfrost:

snip

You're acting like if I don't invest in tech tree, my perks are completely lost.

?!

They aren't though. You spend them elsewhere, become stronger in other ways. Maybe just higher DPS. Some people like glass cannon and/or 'pure human' builds and now if they do that, they aren't locked out of, wait for it:

WEAPONS that you can now craft regardless of your build

which is a good step towards build diversity, don't you think?

[Dravic]

Originally posted by odanastrophe:

When you remove the buff for weapons you made, discounts for crafting and upgrading, bonuses for breakdowns, then what you craft is no different than what you buy. Why bother.

Oh I am sorry, I was under impression nobody here has seen every single crafting blueprint in the game but apparently you have. Enlighten us, thank you.

What if, and this is just WILD speculation, but what if: CDPR knows that everyone has access to crafting now and so they can lock certain weapons exclusively in the form of a blueprint that you must craft.

That would take care of "there's nothing to craft!" issue, wouldn't it?

[Foster]

Originally posted by Blackfrost:

You don't *need* shoes to run, but you'd still wear them to go for a jog.

Previously, you required 18 Tech to get the ability to craft Legendary weapons / mods / armor if you wanted to max out offense and defense.
Not getting 18 Tech was an objectively bad choice from an optimization perspective since you were straight-up less effective: less armor, less weapon DPS, less weapon mods DPS.

With 2.0, crafting perks will be removed.

However, clothing will be purely cosmetic, and Armor Rating will be tied to Cyberware, which is itself tied to Technical Ability.

So without Technical Ability, you will have 66 fewer Cyberware slots, which means less armor and less Cyberware.

Considering how much of the mid-to-end game revolves around getting powerful Cyberware ( Kerenzikov, Optical Camo, Sandevistan, Fortified Ankles... ), plus the fact that Tech is now tied to Armor Rating, plus the fact that it has a busted Capstone, plus the fact that it has Tech Weapon skill tree, plus the fact that there are more ability scores...

Technical Ability became a must-have for any single build.
Nothing else provides this many advantages which such a low investment.

You can still play without it, but much like jogging without wearing shoes there's little incentive to do so.

You're thinking of the game in terms relative to the current combat balance, they claim they're rebalancing effectively the entire game to work around this new skill system and how it functions alongside the changes to armor and other things.

They could easily mess it up, but that doesn't change the fact that they're going to alter it and you seem to have disregarded that.

Hell, just based on the skills alone there's systems in play that would make survivability with zero armor period actually plausible, given there's a lot more ways to get incredibly high mitigation chance as well as changes to healing, the adrenaline mechanic, dashing, etc. etc.

[Dominus]

i think the update on requirement for legendary crafting /buffed crafted items is good in general specificly with the legendary quickhacks for passives (i always hated the karenzikov + sandervistas with the slowed time). Now as a primary gun fighter you can get them relatively easy instead of needing to complete the whole game in order to get maybe some good legendarys. Heres just and quick example of what "good " passive set you could get:
- Ping (Highlights devices and allows to quickhack them through walls.)
-Contagion (Passive While Equipped: All quickhacks capable of spreading to multiple targets can jump 1 additional time(s).)
- Short circuit (Passive While Equipped: Crit Hits with any weapon apply this quickhack's Tier 1 effect.)
-Synapse burnout (Passive While Equipped: Defeating an enemy with any quickhack causes nearby enemies to panic)
-sonic shock (Passive While Equipped: enemies under the effects of any quickhack are cut off from the local network, preventing them from communicating with their allies.)
-Cyberpsychosis (Passive While Equipped: Enemies under the effect of any quickhack will no longer try to avoid inflicting friendly fire.)
-suicide (Passive While Equipped: Causing an enemy to panic reduces the RAM cost of your next Ultimate quickhack by 2.)
Theres already 7 listed and you can have 6. Now the topic of if the Tech tree should be mandatory still is kind of a different but kind of the same as because: technicly you needed the trees legendary crafting for best weapons+ upgrades (armor was just a nice bonus since you pretty much oneshot everything anyways) but now you kind of need it to get full cyberwares. The upped amount of cyberwares affect armour (and possibly via some stat increases offenses aswell. To what degree? no idea). If it only affects just slightly stats and there is no great offensive benefits then i think theres plenty of playstyles that could get away without tech tree (you could compensate defenses with body and refl,int,cool for fighting).

[R1s1Ng0fTh3FaLL]

No, it's still here. Gamespot released a video on changes. 4:30 is about crafting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K-3hi6LIrE&ab_channel=GameSpot

[Graf Erik]

Seems like a good idea.

Main issue I had with the crafting perks before was that you needed some of them to work with rare/epic/legendary items at all and these required very, very high stats (eg 18 for edgerunner artisan required for legendary items).
But if you just continue to play and level up you will inevitable find more and more rare/epic/legendary items, which you cant really use if you don't have the perk to mod them. So if you don't invest a lot of your limited attrib points in tech the game will sooner or later simply lock you out of crafting all together, and you would need to use whatever you found lying around.

And thats something that they fixed. Now you actually have the freedom to chose how to develop your character. We'll see how that works in practise.

[The Wacky Quacky]

Originally posted by odanastrophe:

Originally posted by The_Guy:

You can still build a better gun, its not mandatory anymore to put an unecessary amount of points into a skill tree that is only needed for building Epic/Legendary Armor and Weapons - which was not a good decision to begin with.

When you remove the buff for weapons you made, discounts for crafting and upgrading, bonuses for breakdowns, then what you craft is no different than what you buy. Why bother. Looking through it again, seems like every skill tree got the same kind of railroad nerf or outright eradication. This doesn't diversify the game to make you play different, it forces you to play one of THEIR archetypes.

THIS, Ive only played the game once and the fact this "update" REMOVES the entire "leveling skills as you use them" sucks, now its just a basic rpg with no interesting or unique leveling system, since it now cost 1 perk point to have permanent passive healing over time, but hey they reference the anime so its all fine i guess

[Dravic]

Originally posted by The Ducky Bard:

THIS, Ive only played the game once and the fact this "update" REMOVES the entire "leveling skills as you use them" sucks, now its just a basic rpg with no interesting or unique leveling system, since it now cost 1 perk point to have permanent passive healing over time, but hey they reference the anime so its all fine i guess

What being ignorant does to a person, that's crazy!

The perk of healing passively over time is nothing special. Of course it's easy to access; you don't need it, it's just a thing you can get for some sort of tiny quality of life.

Why? Because the healing items are gone.

Your inhalers don't have quantity now. You have like two doses that have a cooldown. Passive healing is not needed, you just huff the thing once and it'll be ready later anyway.

Context of the entire update versus you just reading and reacting to changes you singled out.

[Blackfrost]

Originally posted by The Ducky Bard:

Originally posted by odanastrophe:

When you remove the buff for weapons you made, discounts for crafting and upgrading, bonuses for breakdowns, then what you craft is no different than what you buy. Why bother. Looking through it again, seems like every skill tree got the same kind of railroad nerf or outright eradication. This doesn't diversify the game to make you play different, it forces you to play one of THEIR archetypes.

THIS, Ive only played the game once and the fact this "update" REMOVES the entire "leveling skills as you use them" sucks, now its just a basic rpg with no interesting or unique leveling system, since it now cost 1 perk point to have permanent passive healing over time, but hey they reference the anime so its all fine i guess

Overall I'd tend to agree.

They have siloed and streamlined all perks.

Nothing really interacts outside of its own tree, and removing the dedicated XP bar for Perk Trees makes it so that you'll never become better over time in something unless you spend Perk points on it.

On one hand it will make builds a bit less "god-like", but on the other hand it will force you to play with what you have invested in, as opposed to what you feel like playing in the moment.

[IL'dar]

Dedicated XP bars for skills are not removed in 2.0.

[Viper]

Crafting is still in the game I am pretty sure.It just removes skill requirements.