Philosophical questions related to human's consciousness in face of soulkiller and engram.

[Twoja Mama]

How is the future of human consciousness even viewed by corps and people when they are working on soulkillers and engrams?
When exactly does a copy from an engram become the original once again? Can that even happen? Or will a copy imprinted on someone's else neural network still be a copy?
What is authenticity in such a world? Can it even exist at that point in the face of consciousness "transplants"?

[Duke H. Vytantis]

That's exactly the point, that you come up with your own view on it.

[PanPan]

It never becomes the original, the original is dead.
Not a copy, a new person with different neural network (even if it looks similar to original, it's a different person)
You can't transplant consciousness because it depends on your life, you are unique and time depended.

You don't have Johnny consciousness, just his IA that changes your brain.
It's a fiction, am just trying to find explanations that match my logic...

[RPG Gamer Man]

Well a company would treat someone's consciousness like a product. They would only take care of it as long as it is paid for. After that, they get rid of it. A copy is still the person even if the original person died. It is like when you save in a video game. Are you the same character as MC if you reload your last save after dying? It uses the same kind of methodology.

[Bogmore]

We are an organic robot. The similarities are striking. I think the question should be "Do they have a soul?"

Engrams are not the original person but a clone of their brain (CPU) data.

[Bishop-Six]

Thats all conspiracy.

Data is data no matter which physical appearance. So we are able to create, manage and adapt it.

(Comment is sponsored by Arasaka)

[Graf Erik]

Yep, thats the main theme of the game

What is a human?
You are a human.

If you replace parts of your body with machines, you are still a human, right?
If you replace the whole body, and keep just the brain in, like Smasher?
If you now upload the mind to a computer, is that engram a human?
If you download it again to a body?
If you download it again to a different body? Who is that? Is that still you?
What if there was already a mind in that body? Who is this now?
And if you take one mind out again?
And if you upload a mind and let it evolve on its own, for decades? Is that... a human? Alive? Even a being?
Whats the difference between Alt and Del?
And why is Brandon so much more human then Del but not even alive?

What are the implications if a corpo can store, archive, manipulate and replicate engrams? And upload them to bodies? Are these humans? Will they have human right? Should an engram have human right?

The game woint provide answers for any of that, but it provides food for thoughts.

[Hidden Gunman]

Meh, we live in a world that is creating sentient AI...an engram is just an engram. Modern reality is playing god.

[Simbolic]

With the black wall that works with there internal networks. That alone is crazy as hell questioning the existence of a human soul. Or in there world does all conciseness get absorb through the net into the black wall. If souls still exist then it all would all just be data. Like Johnny on the engram is more or less just a copy or clone. Gets very complicated when believe in the human Soul. Since hard to believe that would be passed on through an engram.

[Hidden Gunman]

What is a soul? An element of us that coninues on after death? If so, then johnny's engram is johnny's soul.

Quite often the line between ethical and unethical is a very blurry and thin one.

[Titan Awaken]

This is essentially just the ages old “Ship of Theseus” paradox with a Cyberpunk coat of paint.

[Twoja Mama]

Originally posted by Titan Awaken:

This is essentially just the ages old “Ship of Theseus” paradox with a Cyberpunk coat of paint.

First time hearing about it - could You provide an authoritative source of information about this paradox?

[Twoja Mama]

Originally posted by PanPan:

It never becomes the original, the original is dead.
Not a copy, a new person with different neural network (even if it looks similar to original, it's a different person)
You can't transplant consciousness because it depends on your life, you are unique and time depended.

You don't have Johnny consciousness, just his IA that changes your brain.
It's a fiction, am just trying to find explanations that match my logic...

If it's not Johnny's consciousness but only his AI projection, then how can that AI react to the V's surrounding world so "consciously"?

[Twoja Mama]

Originally posted by Bogmore:

We are an organic robot. The similarities are striking. I think the question should be "Do they have a soul?"

Engrams are not the original person but a clone of their brain (CPU) data.

thats actually an interesting take, imma use it in my conversation with professor lol

[PanPan]

Originally posted by Twoja Mama:

If it's not Johnny's consciousness but only his AI projection, then how can that AI react to the V's surrounding world so "consciously"?

Because it's a really well done IA ?
Let me ask chatgpt :

The concept of engrams in the game blurs the line between traditional artificial intelligence and human consciousness. Engrams are essentially digital copies of a person's mind, but in the Cyberpunk 2077 universe, they are designed to retain not just memories and information but also the essence of the person's consciousness, including emotions, thoughts, and personality trait.

This narrative approach allows players to engage more deeply with the characters and the ethical dilemmas presented in the game. It adds complexity to the relationship between the player and the engram, as well as to the broader exploration of the impact of advanced technology on the human experience in a cyberpunk setting.

[Omnicide]

Can you even say for sure if the 'you' behind your eyes looking out is the same as the one who went to sleep last night? The practical answers are the only ones that matter, and if it walks like a Johnny and quacks like a Johnny...

The rest is just window dressing.

There'll come a time where it's not a matter of asking whether AI is really conscious but rather if we can risk treating it like it's not when it might be every bit as 'here' as we are most of the time. For all intents and purposes it will be, even if it's a faker. We might all be fakers. Doesn't change much.