Spoilers! Takemura: Friend or Foe

[Old Man Gamer (OMG)]

Takemura's personality is done really well, but you can easily miss it. If you skip conversations, quests or overlook his comments, you might miss the depth of Takemura's character.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2405487291

I see Takemura as an enemy, and someone who is your most dangerous ally. However, the ends justify the means, right? The thing that sticks out most, is how much Takemura despises anything that is not Arasaka. He spends most of his time with V, criticizing and looking down on everything and everyone. If you were able to get him to talk about his past, you would see that he is a great example off someone who forgot where he came from, or you could say that he is also someone that carries great pride in how he is no longer there.

Takemura is someone that I love to hate, and love for it. He scoffs at the food, criticizes the people and judges others actions and moralities, and just looks down at everyone but his acceptable circle. From the berating of the cook when sitting and eating with V, to his very harsh statement of saying there is no beauty in Night City, when observing and scouting for the next step in plans, for example. There are many times in between, before and after these, in which Takemura shows that he sees himself above all others that are not of his culture.

The thing I like most about Takemura, is he is unbending of his opinion, no matter the circumstances. I know people like this, who would cut off the nose to spite the face. They get their objective done, but in the end, they are still ruined. Takemura is doing just that with V, the entire time. I believe he knows this, and considers this the honorable outcome of his situation. He also shows that he has a glimmer of hope for salvation as well, in his discussions with Hanako.

In short, I see Takemura as someone taking advantage of V, regardless if V deserves it or not. I consider him a fantastic example of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. However, to define what that enemy is exactly would be a whole different subject.

For those that have played the game and formed their own thoughts, I would like to see if your take on Takemura is different or aligned with mine. Different perspectives could add a lot.

[Defective Dopamine Pez Dispenser]

Definitely one of my favorite characters. I also love the subtle ways in which our choices affect our relationship with him and the things he will or won't say in a given playthrough because of them.

For example, if we send Jackie's body to Vik, Takemura will have some things to say about Jackie during the rooftop recon scene with him later. Whether we choose to accompany him on the recon mission also has effects. During that mission, we get to have a pretty deep conversation with him. And if we choose to befriend him during it rather than being antagonistic, changes certain aspects of the endings later.

And of course, just the fact that depending on how we handle the Search and Destroy mission, Takemura can literally die and never be seen again.

[EddystoneM17]

Old Man Gamer (OMG) lähetti viestin:

proci85 lähetti viestin:

Yep, Takemura reminded me of Kurosawa movies in that sense.

You get the same message from him both if you go alone (Reaper), with Rouge ("Sun") or if you go with Panam ("Star"). I'm unsure what happens if you leave Johnny in V's body ("Temperance"). All of these endings result in the fall of Arasaka and Takemura eventually performing a harakiri as a way to redeem himself. Note that for Takemura it is harakiri and not just suicide, as for everyone else, even that is a choice (Judy is explicit about this if you say "I'm not good with words" at the rooftop and some others also spell this out during the videos), whereas Takemura has none at that point.

---

The cultural aspect of the game is actually spot on. I'm fluent in English and can understand some Spanish, French and German, additionally I can catch some things even in Japanese and Russian. There are some very elaborated language jokes, like the "Zeig Dich" announcement: It translates literally to "show yourself" from German, although with the image, it has the "Bück dich" (bend over) vibe to it too, besides that even "Zieh dich" (put on some clothes, also dress up). Or the "Totentanz" (Dance macabre), I had a great laugh when Tinnitus was playing.

Ah, my first playthrough, I did not know to save Takemura, and on my second, I did the Arasaka endings.

From my travels, while in the military, I can confidently say that they did the cultural aspects exceptionally well. One of my Japanese friends, who was half Japanese, would tell me horror stories of how his family is treated in Japan, due to his family not being pure Japanese. Granted, he did well in the Army, and we became very good friends. He also introduced me to anime. We first watched Cowboy Bebop.

I feel that Takemura would have made a great boss fight, and fittingly so, at some point. Fear the Reaper ending would have been perfect for it, I think. However, his parting words are epic, and I found them to be brilliantly places with the rolling credits.

EddystoneM17 lähetti viestin:

ARGHHHHHHH........ Thank you for clearing that up. I haven't done the Arasaka ending yet..
I gave Jackie to family first run, and gave him to victor second. Thats why Dex is shot when you wake up in the dump, he would have taken Takemura to the site he dumped V at ....... Cool....

Then Saburo into Yorinobo's body makes it clear to me now Cheers!!



Did you ever find the highwayman mission, whereby you end up with a green bike with skull on it?

Does anyone here have the guide? I pre ordered it for December, it's now Feb with no ETA.......

I'd like to get a list going of the hidden missions. I think I read 3x and did 1x..........

That bike is the only vehicle I do not have. I have done everything else, but I am trying to do it without looking things up. As such, I missed it for a third time. eventually, I will have them all. I also have all but one weapon for the iconic wall. The psalms one, which did not drop, because he was using mantis blades. Maybe we will get a new game plus, which would make this far easier to get things missed in a single play through.

I also found an antenna the other day. I believe it has something to do with hidden missions (not paralez one)..... It was yellow when I scanned it,then turned blue. I could turn it off and on. I also read a shard that was talking about some stash.... So as of now I think, Skull bike, This antenna and the stash I read about were at least 3x of the hidden missions.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2403007054

[Variag]

Takemura really brutal Samurai!

[Old Man Gamer (OMG)]

Aikido lähetti viestin:

Definitely one of my favorite characters. I also love the subtle ways in which our choices affect our relationship with him and the things he will or won't say in a given playthrough because of them.

For example, if we send Jackie's body to Vik, Takemura will have some things to say about Jackie during the rooftop recon scene with him later. Whether we choose to accompany him on the recon mission also has effects. During that mission, we get to have a pretty deep conversation with him. And if we choose to befriend him during it rather than being antagonistic, changes certain aspects of the endings later.

And of course, just the fact that depending on how we handle the Search and Destroy mission, Takemura can literally die and never be seen again.

Very well put. I find Takemura to be a prime example of how a character can be just there, or be a large part of the story. While I understand more of why he did not, I really wish Takemura would go and get vengeance and kill Yorinobu. If only a speech to convince for or against, to make it an option would be optimal. As such, he always bows out, and I want to kick him in the butt. What happened to your want of revenge? This has been something that bothered me. After those discussions as you have mentioned, not as much so, but still.

[Defective Dopamine Pez Dispenser]

Old Man Gamer (OMG) lähetti viestin:

Aikido lähetti viestin:

Definitely one of my favorite characters. I also love the subtle ways in which our choices affect our relationship with him and the things he will or won't say in a given playthrough because of them.

For example, if we send Jackie's body to Vik, Takemura will have some things to say about Jackie during the rooftop recon scene with him later. Whether we choose to accompany him on the recon mission also has effects. During that mission, we get to have a pretty deep conversation with him. And if we choose to befriend him during it rather than being antagonistic, changes certain aspects of the endings later.

And of course, just the fact that depending on how we handle the Search and Destroy mission, Takemura can literally die and never be seen again.

Very well put. I find Takemura to be a prime example of how a character can be just there, or be a large part of the story. While I understand more of why he did not, I really wish Takemura would go and get vengeance and kill Yorinobu. If only a speech to convince for or against, to make it an option would be optimal. As such, he always bows out, and I want to kick him in the butt. What happened to your want of revenge? This has been something that bothered me. After those discussions as you have mentioned, not as much so, but still.

Yeah, I feel like on some deep level, Takemura does not want to directly act against any members of the Arasaka family. Even when he seems to want vengeance, it's as if he can't bring himself to directly raise his hand against them. But he is willing to empower Hanako to take action in his place. Even she we never see directly act against Yorinobu, it's simply implied she does and then left open to interpretation. Even in the endings where the news broadcast implies Yorinobu was subjected to the Soulkiller, it isn't 100% clear whether that's actually true or not.

This gets into a separate discussion of endings but I think there are two valid interpretations of the two Arasaka endings where V is in space. One is that the events happening in them are totally literal and should be taken at face value. But another is that V is actually trapped in Mikoshi and none of it is real, that Arasaka has betrayed V, and that when we see V angrily remove the bullet medallion (which wasn't there just moments before,) it's meant to hint at V's realization that they've been screwed.

All of which is just to say, everyone in Arasaka's orbit seems very reluctant to take direct action against any of the family. Other than Yorinobu himself of course.

[Dr.Abscondus]

Takemura is like Djikstra from Witcher 3. If you're useful then he will have your back, if you aren't then he will eliminate you. His loyalty is to the Arasaka family and whoever he believes is the rightful head of the family. Samurai do not have friends, they have masters.

[Old Man Gamer (OMG)]

Aikido lähetti viestin:

Old Man Gamer (OMG) lähetti viestin:

Very well put. I find Takemura to be a prime example of how a character can be just there, or be a large part of the story. While I understand more of why he did not, I really wish Takemura would go and get vengeance and kill Yorinobu. If only a speech to convince for or against, to make it an option would be optimal. As such, he always bows out, and I want to kick him in the butt. What happened to your want of revenge? This has been something that bothered me. After those discussions as you have mentioned, not as much so, but still.

Yeah, I feel like on some deep level, Takemura does not want to directly act against any members of the Arasaka family. Even when he seems to want vengeance, it's as if he can't bring himself to directly raise his hand against them. But he is willing to empower Hanako to take action in his place. Even she we never see directly act against Yorinobu, it's simply implied she does and then left open to interpretation. Even in the endings where the news broadcast implies Yorinobu was subjected to the Soulkiller, it isn't 100% clear whether that's actually true or not.

This gets into a separate discussion of endings but I think there are two valid interpretations of the two Arasaka endings where V is in space. One is that the events happening in them are totally literal and should be taken at face value. But another is that V is actually trapped in Mikoshi and none of it is real, that Arasaka has betrayed V, and that when we see V angrily remove the bullet medallion (which wasn't there just moments before,) it's meant to hint at V's realization that they've been screwed.

All of which is just to say, everyone in Arasaka's orbit seems very reluctant to take direct action against any of the family. Other than Yorinobu himself of course.

Is it all a dream? Are we all already in the Matrix? There is a lot to consider with the Arasaka ending, but all signs point to you chose your allies poorly. Johnny's last words are perfect for that ending as well.

Dr.Abscondus lähetti viestin:

Takemura is like Djikstra from Witcher 3. If you're useful then he will have your back, if you aren't then he will eliminate you. His loyalty is to the Arasaka family and whoever he believes is the rightful head of the family. Samurai do not have friends, they have masters.

I agree to a point, but Dijkstra was a selfish bastard with no one but himself in mind. Takemura definitely is not the type to have friends, being Oda was supposedly a representation of it.

[tofujunky]

Most people here are wrong, not because Takemura is not their enemy/user in their story, but because they conclude he is evil because of his giri code and can't be your friend if you want him to be. That is simply incorrect.

In order for Takemura to be your friend (or unrequited love interest) you need to do the proper dialogue sequence. You can send him a text asking him on a date or booty call if you choose the right dialogue options throughout the game. He doesn't take you up on it (he can't because of his duty to Arasaka). However, after you do the Devil's ending he does tell you he will see you again and have the date with you.

I don't think it is right to call Takemura evil for being a samurai figure and obeying his giri code. He could have taken V up on the date to manipulate her, but he did not. He does not manipulate you into joining Arasaka either. It would be required for you to decide to align with Arasaka with no outside influence in order to be in a relationship with a high ranking samurai/yakuza figure like him (look into the giri/ninjo double suicide genre of samurai and yakuza inspired fiction)


You can't make the conclusion that his loyalty to Saburo is evil without also saying samurai are evil in general since you are referring to their way of life. Samurai served plenty of evil masters and rarely ever left them.

V destroys his life and everything he loves if he lives through to the Johnny endings. That is why he tells you to rot in hell if you attack Arasaka. He thinks you are friends if you save him and is betrayed if you do any ending other than Devil's ending... as his life is ruined.

The fact is, if you save him and do those endings you do betray him, or at least he genuinely thought you were friends and cared enough about his world falling apart to not help Yorinobu and hurt Hanako. That is sentencing him to be a framed fugitive forever. So you either use him and don't care, or you betray him because you don't like him, or you reluctantly do either of those for what you perceive to be "the greater good" . But the injustice is definitely not done by him, he never ever betrays V. He is actually one of the least evil and most honest characters in the game. It seems like V either accepts his friendship or uses him, not the other way around.

Remember, V tells Takemura nothing about Johnny or Alt. He only finds out about Johnny right before you get in the car on your way to Hanako with him and Hellman. And by then he trusts you so much that the Johnny issue doesn't even matter to him.

All he knew up until this time is that the relic is killing you and there's and engram on it that you can sometimes talk to. To him, working with Hanako is only way to save you. He doesn't really understand Soul Killer and Mikoshi, he doesn't even care about the relic. So he sees you and him on a mission together to help each other, he has no reason to "use you".

Hope this makes more sense.

[Mithrandir]

I have mixed feelings for that guy :)

Saved his life vs an Arasaka death squad, then I chose not to trust Hanako's obsession with her family. He sent me a hate msg at the end :)

I wasn't even sure Hanako would have let him live as she probably think he failed to protect her father.

I do think his main goal is to redeem himself to Arasako (Hanako) and see helping V as a mean to an end.

But as some have wisely said, he seems to consider there is no life for him outside of the Arasoka clan, no matter what.

In the end, I think he sees only 2 options, death or winning back a place with Arasoka. No deal, friendship, love or anything will change those 2 options for that kind of warrior.

[Empukris]

It is not Takemura that backstab you, it is the other person that I want to kill if CDPR allow me too. It is the lack of that option that disappoint me.

[Old Man Gamer (OMG)]

tofujunky lähetti viestin:

Most people here are wrong, not because Takemura is not their enemy/user in their story, but because they conclude he is evil because of his giri code and can't be your friend if you want him to be. That is simply incorrect.

In order for Takemura to be your friend (or unrequited love interest) you need to do the proper dialogue sequence. You can send him a text asking him on a date or booty call if you choose the right dialogue options throughout the game. He doesn't take you up on it (he can't because of his duty to Arasaka). However, after you do the Devil's ending he does tell you he will see you again and have the date with you.

I don't think it is right to call Takemura evil for being a samurai figure and obeying his giri code. He could have taken V up on the date to manipulate her, but he did not. He does not manipulate you into joining Arasaka either. It would be required for you to decide to align with Arasaka with no outside influence in order to be in a relationship with a high ranking samurai/yakuza figure like him (look into the giri/ninjo double suicide genre of samurai and yakuza inspired fiction)


You can't make the conclusion that his loyalty to Saburo is evil without also saying samurai are evil in general since you are referring to their way of life. Samurai served plenty of evil masters and rarely ever left them.

V destroys his life and everything he loves if he lives through to the Johnny endings. That is why he tells you to rot in hell if you attack Arasaka. He thinks you are friends if you save him and is betrayed if you do any ending other than Devil's ending... as his life is ruined.

The fact is, if you save him and do those endings you do betray him, or at least he genuinely thought you were friends and cared enough about his world falling apart to not help Yorinobu and hurt Hanako. That is sentencing him to be a framed fugitive forever. So you either use him and don't care, or you betray him because you don't like him, or you reluctantly do either of those for what you perceive to be "the greater good" . But the injustice is definitely not done by him, he never ever betrays V. He is actually one of the least evil and most honest characters in the game. It seems like V either accepts his friendship or uses him, not the other way around.

Remember, V tells Takemura nothing about Johnny or Alt. He only finds out about Johnny right before you get in the car on your way to Hanako with him and Hellman. And by then he trusts you so much that the Johnny issue doesn't even matter to him.

All he knew up until this time is that the relic is killing you and there's and engram on it that you can sometimes talk to. To him, working with Hanako is only way to save you. He doesn't really understand Soul Killer and Mikoshi, he doesn't even care about the relic. So he sees you and him on a mission together to help each other, he has no reason to "use you".

Hope this makes more sense.

Absolutely brilliant! Thank you for sharing this! I did not know this was within the options. Does this have to be the female V? I have no intentions of having a booty call with Takemura, but I would like to see this play out otherwise.

[tofujunky]

Old Man Gamer (OMG) lähetti viestin:

tofujunky lähetti viestin:

Most people here are wrong, not because Takemura is not their enemy/user in their story, but because they conclude he is evil because of his giri code and can't be your friend if you want him to be. That is simply incorrect.

In order for Takemura to be your friend (or unrequited love interest) you need to do the proper dialogue sequence. You can send him a text asking him on a date or booty call if you choose the right dialogue options throughout the game. He doesn't take you up on it (he can't because of his duty to Arasaka). However, after you do the Devil's ending he does tell you he will see you again and have the date with you.

I don't think it is right to call Takemura evil for being a samurai figure and obeying his giri code. He could have taken V up on the date to manipulate her, but he did not. He does not manipulate you into joining Arasaka either. It would be required for you to decide to align with Arasaka with no outside influence in order to be in a relationship with a high ranking samurai/yakuza figure like him (look into the giri/ninjo double suicide genre of samurai and yakuza inspired fiction)


You can't make the conclusion that his loyalty to Saburo is evil without also saying samurai are evil in general since you are referring to their way of life. Samurai served plenty of evil masters and rarely ever left them.

V destroys his life and everything he loves if he lives through to the Johnny endings. That is why he tells you to rot in hell if you attack Arasaka. He thinks you are friends if you save him and is betrayed if you do any ending other than Devil's ending... as his life is ruined.

The fact is, if you save him and do those endings you do betray him, or at least he genuinely thought you were friends and cared enough about his world falling apart to not help Yorinobu and hurt Hanako. That is sentencing him to be a framed fugitive forever. So you either use him and don't care, or you betray him because you don't like him, or you reluctantly do either of those for what you perceive to be "the greater good" . But the injustice is definitely not done by him, he never ever betrays V. He is actually one of the least evil and most honest characters in the game. It seems like V either accepts his friendship or uses him, not the other way around.

Remember, V tells Takemura nothing about Johnny or Alt. He only finds out about Johnny right before you get in the car on your way to Hanako with him and Hellman. And by then he trusts you so much that the Johnny issue doesn't even matter to him.

All he knew up until this time is that the relic is killing you and there's and engram on it that you can sometimes talk to. To him, working with Hanako is only way to save you. He doesn't really understand Soul Killer and Mikoshi, he doesn't even care about the relic. So he sees you and him on a mission together to help each other, he has no reason to "use you".

Hope this makes more sense.

Absolutely brilliant! Thank you for sharing this! I did not know this was within the options. Does this have to be the female V? I have no intentions of having a booty call with Takemura, but I would like to see this play out otherwise.

Here is a nice guide someone made on reddit. And this works for either male or female V. It's a brief text exchange. If you ask him to get real food he doesn't respond, if you ask for a booty call he politely declines.

Should note that Takemura is into females, and likely not bi, even though the dialogue for men and women in these texts are the same. In his hideout there are x-rated mags under his bed and they are only of women. There's a lot of little details about him at the hideout that you can find.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/l86k80/how_to_get_a_special_interactionmessage_with/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[sabbathhank]

It honestly seems that way with all the characters as if you cannot fully trust them or know where their true motives and intentions lie.

I felt like takumura is suppose to act initially first off as a alternative world view that is presented to you after being given mostly "anti-corporate" type of view points in an an attempt to further flesh out the game world's storyline but also accomplish some type of grey morale pallet to accompany the story line, themes and settings.

He is shown in a relatable manner in some respects compared to some groups such as the Voodoo boys, who are quite ambiguous for a lengthy part of the story and retaining a veil of secrecy seemingly throughout.

[sabbathhank]

Why would a Japanese man adhering to some ancient "samurai code of conduct" place his loyalty to a large corporate old chinese businessman?

It could all just have to do and involve the relic somehow and he is secretly acting out (can't recall his name overly foreign sounding) will or dying wishes in regard to the relic itself and engram program with Silverhand whatever importance that has to do with the plot.

[tofujunky]

sabbathhank lähetti viestin:

Why would a Japanese man adhering to some ancient "samurai code of conduct" place his loyalty to a large corporate old chinese businessman?

It could all just have to do and involve the relic somehow and he is secretly acting out (can't recall his name overly foreign sounding) will or dying wishes in regard to the relic itself and engram program with Silverhand whatever importance that has to do with the plot.

You are forgetting this is a neofeudal society and corp ceos are the same a Shogun. More like an international yakuza and Shogun combined.

Takemura doesn't know anything about the relic and barely knows about Soul Killer. He doesn't even know Johnny is on the relic and he doesn't find out until Hellman tells him right before you go save Hanako. You got this wrong but that's easy to do if you don't play through all the dialogue and devil's ending. He's a good person and a good friend, if extremely naive and deluded about the world outside Arasaka