This game is not like deus ex

[Rainhands]

While we are waiting on gameplay footage next week just thought I would make a comparison to the original deus ex. I'm not intending for big arguments, its just light hearted.

The difference in the 2 games are perfectly illustrated through the cover art. For Deus Ex JC Denton is staring up into the light, not a ray from god, but flood lights from helicopters whirling above. He's resigned to his fate that he was built for something much bigger than his life.

On the other hand take V. V looks down upon the world as if to take over, it's a challenge to the city. Instead of seeking escape V wants to go all in no holds bars. JC is coming towards the end of his journey, V's has just begun.

The next is style. Deus Ex has a gothic style cyberpunk take. Trench coats, dark sunglasses, eternal night, and a barren looking world.

Cyberpunk 2077 has a retro feel, there is sunlight to balance the darkness, neon lights, crazy hairstyles, and the city is full of life.

Cyberpunk is an open world, Deus Ex uses hubs.

Decisions in Deus Ex have little bearing in the world. For example an important decision can be staying with your brother Paul to fight off the agents. You can argue this has consequences because Paul can live or die so it's a major decision. In Truth it doesn't change the direction of the game at all. It simply means of you save him then you see him briefly in Hong Kong, if you let him die then he's lying in the infirmary at the MJ13 labs. Just like all the other decisions you make it doesn't make a real difference to the story or what takes place.

Cyberpunk on the other hand has lots of decisions with real world consequences. If you allow an enemy to live they may return later and try to kill you, they may help you, it may change the storyline in some way, you might have access to a mission that would bot be available otherwise.

Everyone in Deus Ex has very toned down personalities and they tend to be quite stoic in nature.

Contrast this with Cyberpunk where characters can be emotional and act within a much wider variety of human expression.

In Deus Ex you don't make the story, you are just uncovering a plot.

In Cyberpunk you are the story and shift it with your choices.

These were just a few reasons why I think these games are very different. I am a big fan of Deus Ex and look forward to playing Cuberpunk 2077.

[Kai]

Its more like deusex as a species. This game belongs to the same species, and not the same genre as there are many factors together that makes a game like deus ex. Its like when a game is souls like, but a little more complicated and less popular.

What makes a game like Deus ex? vets, feel free to add anything, its been a while.

First person game
It has to be a first person game. Immersion is number 1 priority. Though HR added a 3P view while taking cover, what it did was
- 1 Immersion
+1 Combat

FPS/RPG Hybrid
Deus ex was first of its kind making a hybrid fps and sim with rpg mechanics. You can play it as a fps with the latest gunplay and combat mechanics, weapon customization, upgrades AND a rpg with mechanics like skills and character attributes etc.

Cyberpunk
Its a cyberpunk game. Cyberpunk in the last 30 years have had various iterations, but have a very distinct style and ethos. From Ghost in the shell to the Matrix and Blade Runner to Akira. Deus ex itself has a very distinct style of a cyberpunk world

RPG Choices
The RP in the G, how you play the game reflects back. If youre killing a lot, or the other way around, the world and npcs will respond accordingly. You may let story npcs die and miss a complete arc and boss fight, change another mission completely, have to chose between conflicting missions, multiple endings, usual rpg stuff.

Modern tech and budget allows cyberpunk to be a more deeper RPG mix with fps

Choice of playstyle
You can complete a mission multiple ways. You can shoot or stealth your way through and most importantly, talk your way through a mission, multiple entries to buildings etc. Mix it up or ghost or hack through the entire game without firing a single bullet, well except some boss fights. This is also where the rpg kicks in, Its all about the choices.

Hub based maps
The main motive behind keeping the world hub based is to make the world as immersive and detailed as possible instead of having miles of nothing. Well, main reason was the technology at the time and budget. Still a detailed hub with soul and story to tell is preferred over a large barren map just to roam around. Plus hubs gives diverse and exotic locations where 1 open world map stays the same.

Cyberpunk went with a relatively small open world for the same reason, and their budget and the current tech allowed them to do all that in an open world.

Protagonist
The protagonist is a written character with his own backstory and personality, not a rpg character creator. Yet measures are taken to make the character as immersive as possible by the means of robotic voice acting and varied dialogue options, so the player sees himself as the character as he chooses. The first game allowed to chose skin tone and starting skills and codename as a RPG does while keeping the real name JC for the story.

Cyberpunk does it the traditional rpg way, because it choses to lean towards a rpg rather than story oriented and also, well, budget. What it does is
+1 Immersion
-1 Character

Other things like the story, politics and philosophy can be anything a writer decides to be in a cyberpunk world. Other mechanics like driving is just extra but a must if its open world, plus it adds a possibility of vehicular combat. When i played dishonored for the first time in 2012, i knew right away it was a deusex like game, even though it wasnt cyberpunk, it checked a lot of the boxes. It was a year later i got to know it was made by the same guy who designed deus ex. So the more points you check from above, the more deusex like the game is, and cyberpunk checks a lot of them.

[󠇩⁧󠀡⁧󠀡]

Ranger eredeti hozzászólása:

RespectWomen&Pallets eredeti hozzászólása:

Deus Ex is amazing though.

This.

I wish this game was far more Deus Ex and way less GTA.

me too

[Kai]

Ⅴ eredeti hozzászólása:

Ranger eredeti hozzászólása:

This.

I wish this game was far more Deus Ex and way less GTA.

me too

Ive been seeing this a lot, people saying its like gta. Just cause you can drive a car, its like gta? How young or casual the audience is? at least think for a moment.

You can drive cars and other vehicles in farcry, watchdogs, ghostrecon, saintsrow, justcause, mgsv, rage, borderlands, mafia, dyinglight, sleepingdogs, batmanAK, madmax, masseffect, redfaction etc. And all of these are completely different games from each other, let alone similar to gta.

[PsychoDino]

Rainhands eredeti hozzászólása:

While we are waiting on gameplay footage next week just thought I would make a comparison to the original deus ex. I'm not intending for big arguments, its just light hearted.

The difference in the 2 games are perfectly illustrated through the cover art. For Deus Ex JC Denton is staring up into the light, not a ray from god, but flood lights from helicopters whirling above. He's resigned to his fate that he was built for something much bigger than his life.

On the other hand take V. V looks down upon the world as if to take over, it's a challenge to the city. Instead of seeking escape V wants to go all in no holds bars. JC is coming towards the end of his journey, V's has just begun.

The next is style. Deus Ex has a gothic style cyberpunk take. Trench coats, dark sunglasses, eternal night, and a barren looking world.

Cyberpunk 2077 has a retro feel, there is sunlight to balance the darkness, neon lights, crazy hairstyles, and the city is full of life.

Cyberpunk is an open world, Deus Ex uses hubs.

Decisions in Deus Ex have little bearing in the world. For example an important decision can be staying with your brother Paul to fight off the agents. You can argue this has consequences because Paul can live or die so it's a major decision. In Truth it doesn't change the direction of the game at all. It simply means of you save him then you see him briefly in Hong Kong, if you let him die then he's lying in the infirmary at the MJ13 labs. Just like all the other decisions you make it doesn't make a real difference to the story or what takes place.

Cyberpunk on the other hand has lots of decisions with real world consequences. If you allow an enemy to live they may return later and try to kill you, they may help you, it may change the storyline in some way, you might have access to a mission that would bot be available otherwise.

Everyone in Deus Ex has very toned down personalities and they tend to be quite stoic in nature.

Contrast this with Cyberpunk where characters can be emotional and act within a much wider variety of human expression.

In Deus Ex you don't make the story, you are just uncovering a plot.

In Cyberpunk you are the story and shift it with your choices.

These were just a few reasons why I think these games are very different. I am a big fan of Deus Ex and look forward to playing Cuberpunk 2077.

dues ex is not really a true rpg

[IL'dar]

Kai eredeti hozzászólása:

Ⅴ eredeti hozzászólása:

me too

Ive been seeing this a lot, people saying its like gta. Just cause you can drive a car, its like gta? How young or casual the audience is? at least think for a moment.

You can drive cars and other vehicles in farcry, watchdogs, ghostrecon, saintsrow, justcause, mgsv, rage, borderlands, mafia, dyinglight, sleepingdogs, batmanAK, madmax, masseffect, redfaction etc. And all of these are completely different games from each other, let alone similar to gta.

I think it's more about open world city than cars.
It's 2020, gaming is mainstream, lots of normies we have today, i'm not saying it's bad, i'm just saying that some ads and wild assumptions are extremely fun to watch.

PsychoDino eredeti hozzászólása:

dues ex is not really a true rpg

Yes, even more ironic that it manages to provide more roleplay and impactful skill system than many so called "true rpg" games.

[󠇩⁧󠀡⁧󠀡]

IL'dar eredeti hozzászólása:

Kai eredeti hozzászólása:

Ive been seeing this a lot, people saying its like gta. Just cause you can drive a car, its like gta? How young or casual the audience is? at least think for a moment.

You can drive cars and other vehicles in farcry, watchdogs, ghostrecon, saintsrow, justcause, mgsv, rage, borderlands, mafia, dyinglight, sleepingdogs, batmanAK, madmax, masseffect, redfaction etc. And all of these are completely different games from each other, let alone similar to gta.

I think it's more about open world city than cars.
It's 2020, gaming is mainstream, lots of normies we have today, i'm not saying it's bad, i'm just saying that some ads and wild assumptions are extremely fun to watch.

PsychoDino eredeti hozzászólása:

dues ex is not really a true rpg

Yes, even more ironic that it manages to provide more roleplay and impactful skill system than many so called "true rpg" games.

too many trolls in these discussions, the CDPR CP_2077 on GoG forums is more than enough to provide consistent content for your subliminal minds,
I enjoy Deus Ex for the storyline, massive potential for a sequel I hope after Mankind Divided, But I never asked for this... I enjoy alot of Bladerunner/Akira/Ghostintheshell/Matrix/CP content on game, as a film or real life.
Just the part that annoys me in these people that say it's not a "true" RPG and want "Multiplayer" because that is the current Baseline for normies these days.
I enjoy the power that CDPR has as an unique Game Developer, they have no higher ups our people to tell them what to do, They can delay as much as the want the game, only thing they'll lose is the player count, which might be good if most of them want the GTA online experience anyway.

[AH-1 Cobra]

I'm glad it's not like Deus X, because Deus X was ♥♥♥♥.

[Defective Dopamine Pez Dispenser]

I think comparisons to Deus Ex are more to do with the modular nature of character builds and the hybrid genre bending nature of the game than anything else. That said, I feel like comparisons to both Deus Ex and GTA V (and Watch Dogs, and Red Dead alike,) kind of miss the point of what CDPR are going for here. I've noticed a lot of dissonance between what I think a thorough digestion of all the material shown so far indicates the game will actually be, and what various groups of players seem to be taking from that material instead.

What Deus Ex comparison inclined players see: Deux Ex Human Revolution but in an open world with driving. This isn't representative of what we should expect, because as OP and other point out, Deus Ex - even if we ignore its hub based, mission-based, and static time of day based nature - is much more of a spy thriller narratively and conceptually than Cyberpunk. They do share in common choices affecting outcomes and in-mission options, so there's that comparison to be made at least. But the structure in how it achieves that differs, as do the tone, concept, and intangible "feel," which is of course subjective.

What GTA comparison inclined players see: GTA's first person mode but set in a cyberpunk setting. This isn't representative of the game either, because GTA is - as one reviewer contrasting them put it - "a mayhem simulator." Cyberpunk has far more full on RPG elements, and is entirely focused on player choice and Witcher 3 style storytelling and deep progression and customization systems. GTA effectively has none of that, not even GTA V which is probably the most character and narrative rich of the games to date. GTA V also - which was one of the few significant criticisms of it - lacks pretty heavily in the interior structure department. 2077 is a much smaller area, much denser. much more vertical world than GTA V's satirical take on the LA area.

What Watch Dogs comparison prone players see: A Ubisoft style theme park akin to Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed, just set in a much more heightened, Blade Runner-esque future setting. This is untrue as well, for all the same reasons it isn't really analogous to GTA V. But also due to the fact that it isn't a theme park with hundreds and hundreds of missions, points of interest, and - again - mayhem simulation. This is not a typical open world city game where you just drive around and mess things up for the fun of it. It's an immersive RPG experience. Watch Dogs at least exists somewhere between the two extremes, given its slightly more methodical approach and hacking gameplay, which can produce some interesting emergent behavior. But that isn't what Cyberpunk is going for. It exists at the much more story-driven, roleplaying progression end of the spectrum. And it's also just much less real world inspired and more... well... cyberpunk. Hence the name. To the extent it does have tons of places to find and things to do, it isn't a checklist theme park like Ubi's games. It's a world with places and people to discover in a roleplaying context.

What Red Dead comparison prone players see: A Cyberpunk open world with the emergent gameplay and "moments" that the Red Dead games are known for (emergent missions that happen dynamically.) There may be some truth to this but, again, there's far more roleplay mechanics here than in either of the RDR games. And, to reiterate once more, this is a more tightly packed, denser, more vertical world by design.

What - imo - people should actually be seeing when they look at the material released so far: A moderately sized (by today's massive world standards, and in comparison to Witcher 3) open world that is densely populated, highly vertical, methodically explorable, with its own rich lore, tone, and atmosphere. An up close, low camera, first person perspective intended to depict the sort of immersive verisimilitude and almost simulation-like quality that you almost have to go back to a game like Shenmue to see (not saying they are anything alike - please don't infer that from the reference; speaking solely of the goal of immersive verisimilitude and detail density for its time.) Attribute and skill based character progression systems that CRPG and ARPG fans should find more familiar than GTA or RDR fans would. Witcher 3 quality storytelling and character-driven narrative, but featuring much more player choice and agency this time around, as we aren't paying a pre-made character (which also sets it apart from the other games mentioned, incidentally.) Featuring a blend of first person shooting, hacking, stealth, and melee, and soft cover, as well as perks and enhancements, implemented in its own way, via systems heavily inspired by the PnP game from which 2077 takes its inspiration.

In short... this is a very different beast. This, if they nail it, is going to be a very special game. The pacing, tone, everything is going to be, while perhaps analogous to past games in parts, cumulatively unlike anything we've experienced before. That's why many people who understand this are so hyped for it. This is something many of us have only dreamed of. A game set in this sort of heightened, tech-noir-like future, in an open world, yet not an open world that prizes scale over density or immersion as so many do. A world all about sense of place and immersive reality. A game which while full of exciting battles (for those who want them - remember that we can do no kill and stealth runs as well,) is also ultimately a slow burning, atmosphere-oozing, RPG experience intended to be taken in and savored.

That's the part I think many people are missing when they make these comparisons. This is a story, RPG, player choice, immersion, and atmosphere driven experience. With a healthy infusion of punk rock attitude.