B42? More Like B-Grind!

[Ediros]

Okay, I know settings can be modified, that’s not what this post is about.

However, it seems like the devs in their goal to prevent multiplayer people from dismantling everything made it worse for everyone else.

-Maintainance? Crowbar gives little exp to force players to use pure weapons. Seems like multiple things were nerfed for one of the hardest things to grind. Case in point, B41. On CDDA challenge I killed over 1500 zombies with fast learner and handy trait. The result? Level 5. That’s NOT fast.
-TV show? Base settings capped at 3, meaning most tapes easily become useless especially with skill books past certain point.
-Muscle Strain forces players to fight less, thus get less experience. No changes were made to experience needed or gained.
-Getting all the way to advanced smith is a multi step process. Knapping -> Pottery -> Masonry, so that you can make it from scratch.
-MASSIVE loot nerfs. It’s comparable to extremely rare lopt settings, similar to CDDA.
-Adding multiple skillbooks, but lowering amount gained thus diluting good books you may need.
-Dismantling no longer gives experience.

Do I need to go on?

Anyway, I hope those things are adressed in the future, because I would rather play cdda without zombie respawn on b41 than the test version.

[AleKote]

Originally posted by DrLamp:

Settings/options

This. Don't be a cry baby OP

[Dudah]

Originally posted by Ediros:

Okay, I know settings can be modified, that’s not what this post is about.

However, it seems like the devs in their goal to prevent multiplayer people from dismantling everything made it worse for everyone else.

-Maintainance? Crowbar gives little exp to force players to use pure weapons. Seems like multiple things were nerfed for one of the hardest things to grind. Case in point, B41. On CDDA challenge I killed over 1500 zombies with fast learner and handy trait. The result? Level 5. That’s NOT fast.
-TV show? Base settings capped at 3, meaning most tapes easily become useless especially with skill books past certain point.
-Muscle Strain forces players to fight less, thus get less experience. No changes were made to experience needed or gained.
-Getting all the way to advanced smith is a multi step process. Knapping -> Pottery -> Masonry, so that you can make it from scratch.
-MASSIVE loot nerfs. It’s comparable to extremely rare lopt settings, similar to CDDA.
-Adding multiple skillbooks, but lowering amount gained thus diluting good books you may need.
-Dismantling no longer gives experience.

Do I need to go on?

Anyway, I hope those things are adressed in the future, because I would rather play cdda without zombie respawn on b41 than the test version.

So, I believe you know that this is an unstable beta, right? Many things are unbalanced, and will be adjusted, and whatever doesn't work the way you want, you can modify in sandbox mode, simple as that.

[Banzai_Samurai]

Originally posted by Ediros:

-MASSIVE loot nerfs. It’s comparable to extremely rare lopt settings, similar to CDDA.

Spawning in muldraugh with abdundant settings on EVERYTHING, I headed to the hospital and many of the shelves inside are just... Completely empty with nothing. There's stuff like masks & painkillers in the trash cans, but not on the actual shelves themselves. This leads me to believe that the loot tables are bugged right now, not really 'nerfed'.

Originally posted by Ediros:

-Getting all the way to advanced smith is a multi step process. Knapping -> Pottery -> Masonry, so that you can make it from scratch.

Anyway, I hope those things are adressed in the future, because I would rather play cdda without zombie respawn on b41 than the test version.

How the hell do you even get from Knapping -> Pottery right now anyways? You need a trowel + buckets of cement, do they have a stone tool for that yet? Why can't we just use clay & mud for a primitive kiln?

[Wilson]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Originally posted by Wilson:

You would literally be better off stomping or running away until you find a better weapon, it breaks almost instantly and does like 1 damage, it's like using a pen 😭

Funny thing...but no. Stomping drains more stamina than any short blunt or short blade...so you are better of with a shive while it lasts. But it is utterly useless since you stab 3 times and it is no weapon:P

stamina is free a shank costs knife

[texascoal]

Originally posted by Bad Harmony:

Originally posted by Coconut Tackle:

I do feel like the push towards "realism" is a misguided direction for the game.

Completely disagree on that, it's just what the game needs to remain fun and immersive. Zomboid has always been geared towards realism and what some people find tedious others find challenging and refreshing, after all even some of the so called "tedious" mechanics in B42, including needing a hose to siphon fuel from cars, make perfect sense. I mean if anyone wants more of a looter shooter zombie survival there's 7 days to die, Unturned, DayZ and plenty other games like that lol

But when realism takes away from fun is that a worth trade-off? For example, there being so many zombies in not so big towns doesn`t make a lot of sense, but most people would agree that it would be boring if the amount of zeds was low and you could easily overcome them. Another example is crowbar, which in theory shoud be insanely hard to break, but breaks pretty fast, so you wouldn`t be set for playthrough when you find one. With these examples we see that devs are willing to neglect realism in favor of achieving their goal which, I believe, is to make the game both challenging and fun.

That`s why I think that arguing that *something* is good because its realistic is a bad way to go about it. The real questions should be roughly "how fun it is" or "how fun the challange it provides is".

For example lets talk about muscle strain (I think strain comes unrealistically fast but whatever).

I understand that devs wanted zeds to be more of a threat, but, in my opinion, muscle strain is a bad way to go about it. The challange it provides is pretty boring and takes away part of what made project zomboid fun (killing lots of zombies). You can still fight them without too much trouble by fence cheesing or taking small groups but the combat loop became much slower which, again, I don`t find fun. It doesn`t help that melee weapons seemingly dissapeared form loot pool which made the combat even slower. There being only one worn-out hammer, a screwdriver and a bunch of "barely-weapons" in a whole neighborhood really amplifies muscle strains effect on games pacing.

[danciagar]

This game is not realistic, is game-fy to be more tiresome and grinding than it would be in real life to do the same stuff.

[Banzai_Samurai]

Originally posted by Bad Harmony:

Originally posted by Coconut Tackle:

I do feel like the push towards "realism" is a misguided direction for the game.

Completely disagree on that, it's just what the game needs to remain fun and immersive. Zomboid has always been geared towards realism and what some people find tedious others find challenging and refreshing, after all even some of the so called "tedious" mechanics in B42, including needing a hose to siphon fuel from cars, make perfect sense. I mean if anyone wants more of a looter shooter zombie survival there's 7 days to die, Unturned, DayZ and plenty other games like that lol

People, across many different games, have had this exact same discussion and opinion, and it always boils down to the same thing; The game gets 'realistic', becomes unfun, people get annoyed and drop it.

'realism' in a Zombie apocalypse is that said apocalypse is over in a week to a month because of rigor mortis + dead tissue decay + atrophy from stumbling around and presumably chasing things. Zombies shouldn't even be able to walk around after a few DAYS let alone a week.

Realism does not, and should not, be the highest priority, but delivering a good GAME with good GAMEPLAY should in fact come first. Im not trying to completely crap on the game here, but it's hard to support realism when it's often served as an excuse towards tedious and pointless grind or 'difficulty'.

[xTRACKERx]

Originally posted by Ediros:

-Dismantling no longer gives experience.

Does that mean I no longer need to lug all my electrical appliances and watches home to take them apart for the XP after i read the book ?

Originally posted by danciagar:

This game is not realistic, is game-fy to be more tiresome and grinding than it would be in real life to do the same stuff.

looks like thats not your type of game ^^

[fromafar2013]

Originally posted by Banzai_Samurai:

Spawning in muldraugh with abdundant settings on EVERYTHING, I headed to the hospital and many of the shelves inside are just... Completely empty with nothing. There's stuff like masks & painkillers in the trash cans, but not on the actual shelves themselves. This leads me to believe that the loot tables are bugged right now, not really 'nerfed'.

There's a new randomized 'looted' chance added to entire buildings. It's not uncommon to find a house, or even a whole hospital or warehouse cleared out with only some useless stuff the looters didn't want lying on the ground. You can adjust the rate of this in the settings, but I believe the default also ties it to zombie population (ie: less populated areas more likely to have already been looted).

[danciagar]

Originally posted by xTRACKERx:

Originally posted by danciagar:

This game is not realistic, is game-fy to be more tiresome and grinding than it would be in real life to do the same stuff.

looks like thats not your type of game ^^

It is 90% of what i play is strategy and survival game, i am a sucker for "realism" game. But this is not:

- your character start with a profession and a lobotomy. Unrealistic "Know how" /skill points for each given profession. A suppose carpenter cannot build a wooden staircase.

- Skill are learned, even with adequate documentation, via relentless amount of repetitive practice.

- Adding that, For a pre-internet society, the lack of such documentation is strange ( that is part of the general issue regarding totally unrealistic amount of household loot)

- basic stuff that can be done in real life and in most survival game are an absolute chore, like finding the "right" size/type of stick for making a spear, even if you are in front of a tree and you got a hatchet. To later have a speak that last at most 30 minute in game of combat.

i could continue, because the problem is the game is being made and its hardcore players are playing at same time, pushing more and more towards a constant timing expansion of the game loops to satisfied the guy with thousands of hours in the game on his next run. Survivorship bias meet game development. After a while those that enjoy the XXL grinding are the only one left, happy with their renovate test of endurance, making the game more and more a slug fest of micromanagement puzzle, vacuous action repetitions and less a game about surviving a post apocalyptic world scenario.

The only horror i have met on b42 is the idea of what to do next to progress on the skill ladder so i can explore the new content.

[Pherdnut]

Level 5 maint after killing 1500 with a crowbar and handy sounds better than B41 to me. Also FYI, in B41, crowbar only adds a very modest boost to maintenance at a big fat loss to weapon training due to it doing absolute ♥♥♥♥ damage because it has a terrible crit chance at low levels. It's a stupid weapon to train long blunt with and probably still is if the mechanics haven't changed much. Sounds like maintenance training got a little easier to me. I killed Grand Ohio with an axe with a handy B41 character (about 2k zeds if you hit it early) and I don't think I saw maint at 5 until much later in that game.

[Quineloe]

Originally posted by Ediros:

-TV show? Base settings capped at 3, meaning most tapes easily become useless especially with skill books past certain point.

Wait, you can only get a skill to level 3 now with the TV? Good thing there's 8 episodes of woodcraft I guess.

[Quineloe]

Originally posted by katsuragi:

Originally posted by Wilson:

I find it funny how people always say just change it in settings, when the idea is that the default settings shouldn't be terrible

This is the definition of insanity. The solution is right there in front of you but you pretend you're helpless.

That's not the definition of insanity, this is just you being incredibly rude.

[Horked]

Originally posted by katsuragi:

Originally posted by Wilson:

I find it funny how people always say just change it in settings, when the idea is that the default settings shouldn't be terrible

This is the definition of insanity. The solution is right there in front of you but you pretend you're helpless.

Guess what? The default settings are difficult. Good thing we can change them to whatever we want.
"B...B...but... I won't feel like a leet pro gamer if I change the settings. I'M LEET AND PRO! They need to change it, not me."

Ok...ok... take your meds and go to bed/

What?

Whats the point of the preset settings, if they so hard that nobody is going to use them? Like having 5 identical CDDA...

The presets is not fine tuned at all, finetuning is what we are doing now. If you dont like that, piss off.

[Mister]

Originally posted by BøgyKhaN:

anyone care to share how to level up skills such as carpentry now ? from what i gathered so far you need to just build log walls and hope for the best and i know you can get levels from vhs tapes but for me im cdda player and what can you do then ?! (there is no tv and sure as hell no saw so you can saw planks)

You understand that you’re describing the entire leveling system, right? It’s about doing repetitive tasks an absurd number of times. How do you level up tailoring? By turning your character into a Chinese factory.

Is it fun ? No.
Is it realistic ? No.
Is it balanced ? No.

It's just PZ.
You can apply those into every aspect of the game now.

Carpentry :

Is it fun ? No.
Is it realistic ? No.
Is it balanced ? No.

Killing Zombies :
Is it fun ? No.
Is it realistic ? No.
Is it balanced ? No.

Shooting Zombies :
Is it fun ? No.
Is it realistic ? No.
Is it balanced ? No.

Surviving :
Is it fun ? No.
Is it realistic ? No.
Is it balanced ? No.

What’s the point of the game? Personally, I don’t know.