Some thoughts on armor

[Potatoman]

First off wanna say I love the armor models and the thought that went into it, very cool.

The way armor is balanced as of now provides no real benefit to the player, especially higher tier armor. Everything bone and lower looks okay to me, with what little I've played of it. Metal armor aught to be a game-changer when you pull up in it, but it's just stat increases as of now. The fact that you can be dragged down by the same 4 zombies wearing nothing but your bare skivvies vs full spike armor is insane. I'm not asking to walk through hordes like iron man, but some functional differences (aside from stat increases between tier levels) would be nice. As it stands I have no reason to go past bone, i literally don't see the point. Yes spike/metal are better statistically but the mobility i sacrifice for a couple extra points of protection will never be worth it to any player, pvp or pve.

In terms of things we can do to improve:
-Increase the number of zombies it takes to drag me down if I'm decked in higher tier armor. Especially if I don't even take damage on that attack, why am I getting kicked around by 3 measly zomboids when I spent literal tens of hours making this suit? Conversely, let me push them off faster so it makes up for the mobility malus I take for wearing such a heavy suit. That sounds like too much of a benefit for metal armor fresh off the press so in conjunction with this I'd also like...

-Armor skills, I know this is controversial considering people think we have too many skills in this update already but hear me out; one skill for each armor class. Whether we wanna deprecate medium armor or not isn't really important to me. But I feel that if I'm running around jumping through windows, hopping fences and fighting for my life in this wooden sarcophagus I made myself I really ought to get a feel for it by my second week atleast.
This means skills for light, (medium?) and heavy armor. The more your character just hangs out wearing it the better you get at moving around and doing things, obviously with a malus just marginally less of one. Meaning you build discomfort slower, get hot slower, movement malus gets a little more bearable, etc. I worry this could be balanced too far against early-game players and too much in favour of late-game players though, this would be tricky to balance.

-Final thought is that making any tier of metal armor and NOT having 100% bite protection is ridiculous, after bite #1 the armor can degrade to 50% protection but if I'm spending that much time leveling blacksmithing, collecting materials, making the highest tier armor in the game just to get trolled by a single crawler I'm simply not gonna bother. It isn't worth it from the multiplayer/community aspect of it either because while the cost is realistic, the benefits are not, no one is gonna buy/trade it aside from maybe a cool showpiece. Armor degradation can be a good thing because you can get blacksmithing exp from repairing it too.

Tl;dr let me tank more hits, add armor skills, make higher tier armor worth it and give armor degradation a larger role

[Fragtzack]

Would think that in real life the more armor you wear, you are easier to pull to the ground. Just physics, no?

Maybe turn off dragging to ground in options when game start instead.

[Owl]

Don't know what the devs want to do with the game, it's like a clusterfrick of different devs have just poured their own ideas into the weird broth that is B42. 'Realistic' skill system but teeth can piece full metal plate.

[Beltneck]

Ya'll need armor?

I just move before they bite me. Wear nothing but the bare minimum to deal with the weather and gravel/broken glass on the ground, so I can carry more loot.

Suppose its good if you plan on getting into a gunfight, little harder to dodge bullets.

But I'd say wearing heavier armors should debuff you in melee. If its a plate or splint based armor that covers your organs, then it would severely restrict your torso's movement. So between not being able to move your torso like you normally would and being more top heavy than you're used to, you'd be a lot easier to throw off balance.

Even need to be careful if you wear anything heavier than a stab or concealed vest. Because it becomes an excellent handle to get grabbed by, and you can't slip out of it.

[Foster]

I agree about metal armor, it should be practical immunity to zombies in exchange for a less effective ability to loot and it should be detrimental in protracted fights.
Discomfort works in a reasonable way, but it should have a fatigue multiplier penalty rather than just allowing zombies to punch through it.

Originally posted by Beltneck:

Ya'll need armor?

I just move before they bite me. Wear nothing but the bare minimum to deal with the weather and gravel/broken glass on the ground, so I can carry more loot.

Suppose its good if you plan on getting into a gunfight, little harder to dodge bullets.

But I'd say wearing heavier armors should debuff you in melee. If its a plate or splint based armor that covers your organs, then it would severely restrict your torso's movement. So between not being able to move your torso like you normally would and being more top heavy than you're used to, you'd be a lot easier to throw off balance.

Even need to be careful if you wear anything heavier than a stab or concealed vest. Because it becomes an excellent handle to get grabbed by, and you can't slip out of it.

Originally posted by Fragtzack:

Would think that in real life the more armor you wear, you are easier to pull to the ground. Just physics, no?

Maybe turn off dragging to ground in options when game start instead.

That's not how armor works in reality.
Armor is distributed across the body to minimize hindrance to mobility and maximize effective coverage of the vitals.
You aren't magically easier to pull to the ground because you have armor on, you aren't magically disabling the rotation of your torso, etc.

The greatest detriments armor confer are that you fatigue quicker, you can't carry as much overall because it does weigh enough to matter in regards to overall load capacity a human body can carry, it is uncomfortable even if it's as comfortable as it can possibly be and you'll heat up faster thus incurring dehydration quicker and easier.
It'll also make you get hungry faster because of the caloric expenditure, and you should lose weight quicker as a result because while wearing it you are effectively doing resistance training constantly until you take it off.

Even if you got pulled to the ground wearing full metal plate armor, you would be practically immune to getting scratched or bitten by the hands and maws of a human, especially a rotting human like the zombies are.

[Raw]

I'have not noticed if its the case but crafting skills lvl should improve armor quality such as durability, confort and mobility.

[stecph]

The pulling to the ground is fair enough. What is a deal breaker for me is the "uncomfortable debuff". That is way too punishing and makes me not use any armor at all.

[Foster]

Originally posted by stecph:

The pulling to the ground is fair enough. What is a deal breaker for me is the "uncomfortable debuff". That is way too punishing and makes me not use any armor at all.

It's not really that punishing, honestly.
The unhappiness uptick is comically slow even at maximum discomfort.

[katsuragi]

As others said, heavy armor would make you easier to pull to the ground, not harder. Being in your skivies would give you best chance of not being pulled to the ground. I have no idea if these are actually factors in the game.

Metal armor would not make you invincible against zombies who can pull you down easily because of your limited mobility, who also never sleep or get tired or give up. Maybe you wouldn't get bit with 100% coverage, but given time and your inability to stand up with a dogpile of zombies clawing at you, they would eventually peel open a gap between plates and get at the meat inside, and even if they didn't, you would die there slowly and most horrifically.

Thinking a suit of metal makes you invincible to zombies is cartoonishly simplistic

[Deklend]

As others have said, I don't think this is an area which needs a "progression" system. This game doesn't take place in Azeroth, it takes place in 1993 Kentucky. Yeah, metal armor existed in 1993 Kentucky, but there weren't no soldiers wearing full plate during the Gulf or Bosnian Wars for obvious reasons.

It's sort of similar to the weapon system. You COULD use a sledgehammer as your zombie smasher, but for obvious reasons your better off using a crowbar or baseball bat instead.

[way2co0l_2003]

Oh man, I'm just thinking of how terrible it'd be to get pulled to the ground by a dozen zombies that can't actually harm you would be. Obviously they shouldn't be able to bite through any full plate armor system, but with the added weight, once you go down, you're also never ever getting back up either. Not with the zombies making sure you stay down. Now that would be a terrible way to go.

[Potatoman]

Originally posted by katsuragi:

As others said, heavy armor would make you easier to pull to the ground, not harder. Being in your skivies would give you best chance of not being pulled to the ground. I have no idea if these are actually factors in the game.

Metal armor would not make you invincible against zombies who can pull you down easily because of your limited mobility, who also never sleep or get tired or give up. Maybe you wouldn't get bit with 100% coverage, but given time and your inability to stand up with a dogpile of zombies clawing at you, they would eventually peel open a gap between plates and get at the meat inside, and even if they didn't, you would die there slowly and most horrifically.

Thinking a suit of metal makes you invincible to zombies is cartoonishly simplistic

getting pulled to the ground by 3 or 4 zombies when you wont be taking damage for the next 10 minutes is what i take issue with. im aware its not a cartoon and that armor isnt invincible. but why am i standing there like a clown just getting munched when i didnt even feel the bite\scratch\laceration. why am i getting pulled to the ground like my arms and legs are spaghetti all of a sudden?

i can understand the weight but im not entirely helpless either. the idea that anyone can be crushed in mere moments because 5 zombies wanna give you a big hug flies in the face of the realism aspect too. your doing literally ANYTHING you can to fight back in that situation not taking a nap on the sidewalk. i feel this is a balancing issue because if the armor serves no purpose other than cosmetic then it shouldnt be a focus of the update if it stays this worthless. as it stands now this is simply bloat. if i have the ability to make plate armor im not having sword fights with other players\npcs, im making ammo\guns or something actually useful

bottom line is yes, more zombies is death, but your really telling me the dude in plate mail is HELPLESS against 3 zombies? be real with me please

[Potatoman]

Originally posted by Fragtzack:

Would think that in real life the more armor you wear, you are easier to pull to the ground. Just physics, no?

Maybe turn off dragging to ground in options when game start instead.

if your just gonna suggest sandbox options instead of discussing the active beta, maybe dont? like thats cool and all but i want to talk about things that are actively being reworked and i want feedback\discussion because i find it fun, not sandbox tips because i find the game unplayable

[Potatoman]

Originally posted by Deklend:

As others have said, I don't think this is an area which needs a "progression" system.

progression is kinda the games shtick, no? they added these items and crafting systems and it was a huge focus of the update. im just wondering if accompanying skills are wanted\needed

[Animalman]

get the bow in there and i'l drop a test,
get the bow in the the bow and arrow in PVP
and wear armours for that

[Potatoman]

Originally posted by Beltneck:

Ya'll need armor?

I just move before they bite me. Wear nothing but the bare minimum to deal with the weather and gravel/broken glass on the ground, so I can carry more loot.

Suppose its good if you plan on getting into a gunfight, little harder to dodge bullets.

armor's in the game so im just critiquing how its implemented, can always go nude but wheres the fun if i never get to interact with an entire side of the game's crafting?

thing is i dont think itd be good at all in a gunfight. id honest to god rather go nude in a gunfight than show up wearing plate mail. that relatively thin metal sheet isnt doing anything kevlar cant already do 3x better, while being infinitely lighter. dont forget its gonna fracture once its pierced too, in addition to the coverage being atrocious. plus what you said about it making you slower, (not to mention louder, goodluck sneaking up on anyone) hell no im not cranking 90s in plate im taking it off asap

plate is really only practical in the scenarios it was designed for, withstanding melee combat