Skipping Husbandry, Hunting, & Pets for Human NPC's?

[Torkkar]

ok now hear me out here guys I got this info here:

https://www.nme.com/features/gaming-features/project-zomboids-chris-simpson-talks-about-a-decade-of-zomboid-and-build-41-3129604

and I'm here to say to the dev's this is a BAD Idea for many reasons so here we go

1.) in build 41 we have Host Multiplayer & servers setups that cover having a Group of survivors so we Really don't need NPC's trying to kill us, steal from us, or joining us we have that already with players.

2.) in the current gameplay loop there is a BIG gaping hole in farming & that's the Mildew cure needs Unspoiled Milk how do you get this after the powers out? it SPAWNS Rotten! With Animals we have cows Cows give FRESH milk every day problem solved unless some of these human NPC's are nursing mothers but that's a path best left Untreated.

3.) Hunting would be SO much better than trapping especially with bows & an archery skill & stone arrows. If hunting with a rifle you have the added likely hood of attracting zombies to your hunting grounds as well as the reward of potentially 500lbs of raw meat (Bear) 100-200lbs of raw meat (Deer Buck & doe) or actually SHOOTING rabbits (seriously Trapping RNG Sucks) not to mention the pelts, Hides, & skins to make leather & either make your own leather cloths or patch up your existing ones.

4.) Why not Both? as is currently on steam there are 3 mods that add Both NPC's & Hunting why not use these mods as a base to refine & build both NPC's & Hunting on? it would not be the first time a modder was added to a dev team.

But back burnering an update that has MORE potential fixes for problems faced with the current build of the game to favor Human NPC's that NOT everyone will like yeah pretty bad move. I'm one of the MANY players who would LIKE human NPC's but at the same time I want PROPER Hunting & silent ranged weapons MORE than NPC's to clutter up the world since my fun loop is to get to the woods ASAP & start my end game off the grid living more NPC's is not a feature I can readily use & they'd just be like other zombies something to be mowed down or avoided until I can use them.

[FragLeg]

I don't think it's that bad, because technically, NPCs are just animals in human form. If you have the code for an NPC trying to run away from the player, you have the code for a deer trying to run away from the player. If you have code to give a NPC an item, you have code to give a cow its feed.

[Torkkar]

technically true but what I'm Saying is we NEED the Animals MORE that something else to potentially fight over the stuff in the urban area's. IF we had deer we get fresh meat to make steaks, sausages, rack of ribs, & Minced Meat (ground meat/hamburger meat) we get Hides & Pelts(thicker furn that hide) to craft leather sheets to make patches or clothes.

With husbandry we get cows & pigs Meat, Bacon(if the belly is cured & Smoked) & Fresh Milk AFTER the power outage so we can make mildew cure, we also get hides & leather.

With Pets we get dogs & possibly cats, Cats can be trained to hunt rodents so Mice & rats they're basically a bait-less mouse trap. Dogs can help fight, Be loaded with supplies & sent back to base, in MP host & servers someone could unload the dog & send it back to you, Dogs cand track & flush pray like rabbits, turkey's, Squirrels, even track larger animals too.

if we have Human NPC's what do we get? an intelligent Zombie that going to go from house to house looting everything before you, They'll try to jack cars, They'll try to kill you if they're hostile if neutral they join you if they're cowards they'll drop their loot & run, thats it all Human NPC's will do is concentrate the loot in an area & pester the player or just down right kill the player on site with a gun.

There are fewer uses for Human NPC's than Animal NPC's but why back burner the animals to focus on humans? that's just DUMB, if your humans are going to have animal interactions then do the smart thing & Develop them TOGETHER & release them even just the basics in the SAME update along with some bows IDK bout crossbows they take too long to reload for the range advantage give me something I can fire fast & move with.

I hope you can all see the point I'm trying to make to focus on one side of the NPC's over the other is a fool errand because your going to:

1. Split the community

2. Drive away player who want the option you shelved

3. It's ultimately going to lengthen dev time IF & WHEN interaction issues pop up if developing at the same time / rate these issues are quashed as they pop up which will speed up dev time without needed wasted time bug hinting a whole patch when you can know where the issue arises roughly.

lastly I just don't see the need for NPC people when we have MP now we HAVE people to play with give us more useful content not just a pale simulation of what we have now if we want it.

[Andros]

I heard you can still make the spray with spoiled milk

[Higgs]

NPCs were always planned, so the singleplayer definitely needs them especially after such a long time. This is a good decision, it's what the animation update laid the groundwork for adding them after so long for people waiting for them. They're extremely important to the game, its endgame and furthering the possible story content with interactions between them and the fundamental part of the 'This Is How You Died' tagline - being the story of how you died.

You'll find out more tomorrow in the blog though.

Originally posted by lemmy101:

Animals are NPCs. It's not clear if they'll drop in the first build or not yet, but there's no reason to lose hope. More on Thursday about it.

[Torkkar]

Still I and those like ME have been waiting 10 YEARS for hunting to have that yanked out for Human NPC's something EVERY OTHER Zombie game did to death.

something done to Death is a dumb move.

[Chilli Dog Dave]

hopefully with the animal update (i'd prefer to call it the hunting update since its just more food :) ) there will be bears, deer, possibly badgers and venomous snakes, wolves and if im REALLY hopeful, wild dogs, farm animals and orphaned cats+dogs that we can give new homes.
and lest we forget new plants in the wild to eat or get hurt by like poison ivy bushes, thorns, rashes from said things, embedded thorns or even animal hides and dried meat.

as well as a bunch of new ways to hurt them and us (lets be honest it'll most likely be us) using things like bear traps, window nails to scratch those who try to climb through, nails on floors to pierce shoes, trip wires etc because the game needs more injuries and sources of food before NPC's humans, otherwise they'll feel slightly more hollow. just imagine the posibilities!

bear fighting zombies, wander in the woods and get bit by a snake, try to rob a survvior home only to step on a bear/mouse trap.
lot of drama, more gameplay, expands first aid, tailoring with hide crafting, cooking and the possibility of crossbows+bow being added as craftable options with arrow head dippings, just think of the suffering ou could inflict with zombie blood coated arrow heads on players

[Higgs]

Originally posted by Torkkar:

Still I and those like ME have been waiting 10 YEARS for hunting to have that yanked out for Human NPC's something EVERY OTHER Zombie game did to death.

something done to Death is a dumb move.

I don't think you understand the scope of this system and how invaluable it is to the game's replayability.

They're not going to be static vendors or traders that just lock down their store at 7PM and leave you alone to be the main character, which is what a lot of other games do, which works for them, and that's fine too.

I get you're clearly very passionate about hunting, but it's not like it's cancelled or anything. This is been the plan for a long time, over a lot of deliberation it's been decided the best course of action.

Many, many people over the years have said the same thing, for countless systems, MP being the recent example if it 'wasn't released x month, the game would die'. Yet we waited and waited until it was right and the game has benefited way more than could be anticipated from that.

We're confident this is right and I hope you can try to understand that.

[westrud]

I would much prefer animals be added and NPC's could be forgotten altogether, but I understand most people don't feel that way. I can't see how NPC's will ever be good enough to be immersive in this game. The reason I feel this way has nothing to do with the devs abilities but the fact I have never seen NPC's in any game that were good enough to fit into an open world sandbox.

NPC's can only do what they are programmed to do, and say what they are programmed to say. Nothing in a game is more immersion breaking then endless fetch quests and hearing over and over about taking an arrow to the knee. I know people think that NPC's can be a replacement for actual players to play against but I just don't see it happening. Many games use different techniques to give the illusion that NPC's are smart but in the end they only act as they are programmed, which is always pretty simplistic. Animals can get away with this simplistic behavior without losing anything but for humans it ends up breaking immersion once the "program" is figured out.

Also the mildew cure can indeed be made with rotten milk.

[SonOfJupiter]

I'm honestly really excited for NPC's and I don't mind much they're coming first - I did have my hopes up I'd be playing around with dogs and farm animals soon but like the quote above says, animals are NPC's! I imagine it just means they will possibly be trickled in along side bulkier human content. Either way, we should all be very excited!

[Chilli Dog Dave]

Originally posted by MadDan:

They're not going to be static vendors or traders that just lock down their store at 7PM and leave you alone to be the main character

get the impression you didnt like the stores in Oblivion due to this very thing ;P

[Grishnerf]

cant wait to get blasted by a gas station owner's shotgun while entering overloaded with 7 gas cans.

[njs]

Originally posted by westrud:

Nothing in a game is more immersion breaking then endless fetch quests and hearing over and over about taking an arrow to the knee.

Whatever NPCs are going to end up acting like, we at least know they won't be anything like this. TIS is using AI behavior trees to make them, which basically means that they'll be making decisions on their own and "play" the game. How many different choices they'll be able to make, and how complicated their decision-making and option choices are, is something we've yet to see, but they certainly won't be static background noise or glorified quest givers.

[Death]

After reading the article he didn't necessarily say that full blown NPCs will be next. I'm pretty sure that animals are still next as they are literally the foundation that human NPCs will be built on and the rest will be done in subsequent builds.

[GΔЯGØYLΞ'ร BITE]

Originally posted by MadDan:

NPCs were always planned, so the singleplayer definitely needs them especially after such a long time. This is a good decision, it's what the animation update laid the groundwork for adding them after so long for people waiting for them. They're extremely important to the game, its endgame and furthering the possible story content with interactions between them and the fundamental part of the 'This Is How You Died' tagline - being the story of how you died.

You'll find out more tomorrow in the blog though.

Originally posted by lemmy101:

Animals are NPCs. It's not clear if they'll drop in the first build or not yet, but there's no reason to lose hope. More on Thursday about it.

Will NPCS support controllers? The issue with the npc mod is that I have to use my mouse to interact with them. If this is the case with NPCS when they come out it'll be terrible for controller players.

[Mirage]

You can make the mildew with rotten milk