New update. But why the Grace period?

[Barrelz]

* Zombies have now defense according to clothing -- This is interesting. Looking forward to returning and seeing how this works.

* Fixed sudden pause at the end of vaultOverRun -- Good good.

* Fixed players not always facing the direction they should when performing actions. -- Sweet.


* Added a grace period during which a 'Surprise Bathroom zombie' attack does no damage to avoid unfair instadeath. -- Why? Is this an option in sandbox or applied to all game modes. Not sure why you made us invulnerable to stupidity.

[Lemonhead]

Originally posted by Barrelz:

*
...
-- Why? Is this an option in sandbox or applied to all game modes. Not sure why you made us invulnerable to stupidity.

It was getting a lot of people, in a pretty varied set of circumstances that may have been counter-intuitive I think. Now however, I've had a zombie land a hit on two occasions (after a wiff swing I think), where I took zero damage, and zero armor damage. One was out in a field somewhere. They could have been helmet hits though.

It does beg the question, how much is too much? Someone worked real hard to devise these 'player-killer' systems, and frankly I think they hit the mark or damn close with a lot of it.

Initially, I'd come at as much as I could under the assumption that it was working as intended and I needed to suck it up & lrn2ply again. It was tense and engaging. Maybe even hyper-tense and exhausting at first. (which would be bad, but it passed) All told it's been good horror gaming. Now I've got my gitgud back, and I don't really fear these zeds, respect maybe, but not fear.

Might be worthwhile keeping a few of these features on standby for a real "you are definitely gonna die" sandbox setting "Fear Mode". I can't sit for hours in a state of constant 'fight or flight' terrified of what an RNG is going to do to me next, but I could see the attraction for some.

[the-phil]

Curious how you got around the "surprise" instant deaths.
I started double tapping all doors so they'd open and close immediately after they were opened. This gave me a splint second to peer into the doorway to see if there was a zombie at the door. If there was a zombie on the other side and the door wasn't immediately closed, I instantly died.

[Ficelle]

While ive not been killed by the SBZ in b41, i can understand why something like this is implemented


A zombie ready to attack and alerted should bang at the door...your choice to open or not and take the risk

But a silent zombie isnt alerted and dont know you are there
He would be banging and moaning otherwise
So, it shouldnt be ready to attack in 1/10 second


Now, i would have not made it this way with an immunity
I would have enforced a delay before a non ready zombie could attack...1 second or something

[Lemonhead]

Originally posted by the-phil:

Curious how you got around the "surprise" instant deaths.
I started double tapping all doors so they'd open and close immediately after they were opened. This gave me a splint second to peer into the doorway to see if there was a zombie at the door. If there was a zombie on the other side and the door wasn't immediately closed, I instantly died.

I didn't, I died, but then I stopped opening doors when I didn't know what was on the other side. My method for doors I *really* wanted to check was to turn sneak off and walk/run a little, but mostly just a healthy dose of NOPE.

[Barrelz]

I like the idea of opening doors having you on the edge of your seat. Perhaps there is a silent zombie, I am game for this. I dont think zombies have to be inherently noisy. Every closed door should be suspect.

The only times I have died in B41 (and I haev died alot) was when I got careless and/or stupid. Im not into this handholding and Devs nerfing things because people are stupid/careless.

Says there right on the Store Page "A hardcore RPG skillset" and "focus on realistic survival". Seems to be sliding that slippery slope of applying balance rather than realism. When games start going that way on the slippery slope, welcome to pure arcade and say good bye to realism. Literally the only advantage the zombies have is their ambush and now its getting nerfed. That sucks!

Me now knowing that I can open a door and wont have to worry about it too much anymore is lore breaking and a little disappointing. Certainly wont be as thrilling anymore. I am now invulnerable for a certain amount of time. Shame.

[BlitzBob NoPants]

What a shame!

I get that losing a character to something to surprising and unexpected might leave a bad taste in your mouth. However, that is when you are supposed to learn and adapt.

Since losing a character to bathroom/closet zombies I have found several ways of dealing with this.

A few examples are:

- Pushing the door to make noise (knocking). If a zombie is in there, it will respond by knocking back.
- Leaving as much room between you and the door as possible while opening it and pushing the moment you open it. Worst case scenario there is either 2 zombies or you pushed the air.
- Running past the door and opening it in motion. Takes some practise, but this is also how I deal with groups of zombies if I want to stop 'em from breaking a door.

The fact that everybody here knows what you are talking about when you mention a closet or bathroom zombie means that they have become infamous and they way I see it, that's a good thing.

Now since this is something I can deal with (see examples above) I have to wonder if they will also muzzle zombies that are standing right next to a window so you can see 'em when looking inside or zombies waiting for you at the top of the stairs. Those are harder to draw out without getting unwanted attention from other zombies in the area.

In fact maybe we should make the first few attacks on all zombies ineffective, because maybe they were friendly zombies and they were leaning in to give you a hug. And then let's do the second attack too, just to be on the safe side.

Please excuse me the rant, but this games main appeal is how unforgiving it is. I truly feel they should not compromise on things that a little player ingenuity could have dealt with.

[Diarmuhnd]

Originally posted by Barrelz:

...
* Added a grace period during which a 'Surprise Bathroom zombie' attack does no damage to avoid unfair instadeath. -- Why? Is this an option in sandbox or applied to all game modes. Not sure why you made us invulnerable to stupidity.

I agree. When I'm looting a house I make noise to alert zombies possibly in the house so i can clear it. Hitting doors and walls. Yelling. Turning on the TV or the radio.
So far, out of my 18+ deaths in Apocalypse IWBUMS, not once did i die from a zombie rush from opening a door. Hmmn. Guess i was doing something else wrong then.
Maybe the only players who were getting eaten by zeds were the ones cutting corners and rushing. Or maybe not if the dev thinks it needed a force field fix.
I'll just go play and see what the changes are like though before attracting a horde for revenge.

[Slimane]

I've watched enough streamers die to absolutely cheap behind door zombies with reaction time of a machine. Like they open the door and the zombies were ALREADY in lunging mode behind the door, not doing any noise.

Here is an example of how cheap it can be:

https://youtu.be/jJlYkSJPvuQ?t=961 (start from where I put , or start from 16:00 when he enters Police station.)

Yes of course he could of banged on the door, I've seen this specific streamer take a lot of risks simply opening doors like that. But how are there so many zombies in an windowless room? If they were in lunge mode instantly, why werent they banging on the door?

Originally posted by Barrelz:

* Added a grace period during which a 'Surprise Bathroom zombie' attack does no damage to avoid unfair instadeath. -- Why? Is this an option in sandbox or applied to all game modes. Not sure why you made us invulnerable to stupidity.

Theres a difference between stupidity and straight up unfairness. Who wants to watch 20 hours of gameplay go down the drain to something so cheap?

[BlitzBob NoPants]

That wasn't even just him being bitten, it was just such a large group he was pulled down to the floor immediately. Not even sure if the grace period protects against that.

It sucks to see a character go like that, but I'm just gonna say it again. That's the game. He just casually walked up to a door and opened it. You are doomed to fail over and over again, if you can't learn from your mistakes...

As for the amount of zombies in there, it IS a bit odd game mechanics wise, but I could think of a number of reasons why there would be "story" wise.

[Myriad]

Originally posted by Ficelle:

I would have enforced a delay before a non ready zombie could attack...1 second or something

^This is more realistic. Like have the Zed take a second to identify that you're food when it was not alerted.

Originally posted by Slimane:

die to absolutely cheap behind door zombies with reaction time of a machine. Like they open the door and the zombies were ALREADY in lunging mode behind the door, not doing any noise.

^Yeah it's a bit much. Every time I've seen this, they were indeed already in lunging mode with the processing speed of a super computer.

[Slimane]

Originally posted by Myriad:

Originally posted by Ficelle:

I would have enforced a delay before a non ready zombie could attack...1 second or something

^This is more realistic. Like have the Zed take a second to identify that you're food when it was not alerted.

Originally posted by Slimane:

die to absolutely cheap behind door zombies with reaction time of a machine. Like they open the door and the zombies were ALREADY in lunging mode behind the door, not doing any noise.

^Yeah it's a bit much. Every time I've seen this, they were indeed already in lunging mode with the processing speed of a super computer.

I'm thinking it's just temporary until they can figure a better way to do it.

[BlitzBob NoPants]

I'm all for a short delay between the zombie visually detecting you and his consequent movement. Make more sense too, they're already a bit slow.

[Barrelz]

If I was waiting behind a door, I can be ready to attack as soon as that door handle turns. That doesn't make me a machine with the processing skills of a super computer. That makes me realistic with relatively quick reactions, which the zombies seem to have in the rest of the game. Other than not being able to run (In main game modes) they aren't exactly slow, I mean, they can get a bit of a shift on when close to you. This invulnerability to carelessly opening a door is just silly in my opinion and I hope it doesn't remain. It's a pure arcade machanic and I am not a fan.

[Ficelle]

I wouldnt bother too much anyway
As someone else said, it is probably a placeholder mechanic at this point

I still think a short delay before a zombie can attack would be better...and more fitting
After all, zombies are not supposed to be fast stalking predators like cats

[Myriad]

Originally posted by Barrelz:

If I was waiting behind a door, I can be ready to attack as soon as that door handle turns. That doesn't make me a machine with the processing skills of a super computer.

If you were anticipating it, sure...

Originally posted by Ficelle:

After all, zombies are not supposed to be fast stalking predators like cats

Even a fast stalking predator like a cat would take a second to assess the situation if you surprised it.