The blame game

[Wynnde]

So, I'm hardly new to D2, but at the same time I am what most "hardcore" players would refer to as a "casual"...and I am ok with that.
I've spent a few days now (after completing the Lightfall Campaign) reading through various boards/reddits/etc and really trying to wrap my head around the arguments presented by the various players who are complaining.
Now, as with any discussion of any topic, experiential evidence is all any of us can really provide...and to that point anyone whose sole response is centered around "you must just suck at the game cause I have no trouble beating God on Legendary" is not helpful, nor is it even a legitimate response.

Take that sh*t somewhere else.

To the argument of difficulty having been increased, I can say without hesitation (from personal time spent playing) that it feels like the time to kill for everything presented in this expansion is far (and I mean FAR) greater than anything else in the game.
While a higher light level (which I have always considered a completely bullhs*t mechanic, but I digress) does seem to improve outgoing damage a small amount, but even at my current Light Level of ~1760, it feels like the sheer amount of damage the mobs can take is ridiculous.
Adding on to this ridiculousness of increased "armor", the AI's aim/shot placement feels like it has been "improved" to levels beyond any I have ever seen...to the point of never missing and doing a phenomenal amount of damage.
While I will freely acknowledge that my own stats are hardly close to the best, I have never struggled to this frustrating level prior to this expansion.

It seems there are two side to the argument of difficulty, and from a strictly third party observational viewpoint, it is crazy to see who each side blames for the issue.

One side feels that the game is (still) too easy and that the difficulty is of no consequence to the game, or even to any player. This side feels that the issue of difficulty is strictly a (non)problem of the less-than-perfect players.
These viewpoints are (generally) the "elite" or "hardcore" players, and seem to neglect taking into account the sheer amount of time/effort it takes to be able to play at their level.

The other side are those who feel as though the game's difficulty has been (whether artificially or through intentional inflation of armor/health/shield/etc) increased to a point that feels designed to curb (or even halt altogether) progression through the expansion.
I will insert myself into this second group.

The first side blames the second side...the complaints and whining are going to force Bunghole into making the game too easy, thus removing any incentive to play.

The second group blame Bunghole for listening to the first group.

I don't really care about laying blame or finding fault...I honestly don't...but it feels like there is a portion of the player community who don't give two flying fu*ks about anyone's fun but their own...I find it strangely odd that the majority of this portion of players (which constitutes about a third of players overall) are primarily PVPers.

D2 is suffering from many problems...many of which seem to have been foisted upon Bunghole by themselves and their implementation of shortsighted or poorly thought out game changes...but in my view, we ,as players, are far too willing to divide ourselves and blame the wrong entity for whatever issues we have.

[Nerrinas]

The mobs on Neptune are incredibly high light levels for some bizarre reason, so at 1760 you're by design meant to be 'eating ♥♥♥♥' in terms of damage dealt. A lot of them are 1780 base, and during public events and Terminal Overload / Strike Force start hitting 1810.

Is it bad design? Yes. But they don't stay bullet sponges forever.

As well as that, the engine limitations have only gotten worse in Lightfall. It's been proven that at 30 fps you're literally twice as tanky than at 60 fps, and then the same goes for 60 compared to 120 etc. This is especially noticeable on any hitscan enemies such as Hobgoblins, where in master lost sectors you can quite literally be instantly killed by a red bar Hobgoblin at 144 fps but can take 5 hits from it at 30 fps.

[Wynnde]

Originally posted by Nerrinas:

The mobs on Neptune are incredibly high light levels for some bizarre reason, so at 1760 you're by design meant to be 'eating ♥♥♥♥' in terms of damage dealt. A lot of them are 1780 base, and during public events and Terminal Overload / Strike Force start hitting 1810.

Is it bad design? Yes. But they don't stay bullet sponges forever.

The light level of the mobs could be accounted for if we (players) had a feasible or more easily accessible means of gaining light level to match before we started encountering these huge disparities between ourselves and the mobs we fight...but no...you are dumped on Neomuna at around 1680 and just left at that point.
Strikes, bounties and lost sectors are of little help in climbing this hill.

[Nerrinas]

The legendary campaign dumps you out at 1770 exactly, pure gear light level. You're more likely to be 1780 though if you didn't just rush past everything and got your artifact levelled up during the campaign.

It does seem like they intended for this to be the general progression unless someone was willing to breeze through the regular campaign and then spend hours farming strikes and battlegrounds until the softcap of 1750 and then tried to tackle Nightfalls / weeklies at a 20 light disadvantage.

[Zerith]

i would say im a casual and havent played since they added stasis and am loving the increased difficulty and don't really have the problem of things taking forever to kill and currently light level 1801

[Mr.Lost]

I ran through the lightfall campaign in like 3-4 hours on legendary and didn't think it was hard nor easy, just the shear amount of ads made it more annoying than hard.
I think the part that separates the "casuals" from the "hardcore" players is the knowledge of weapons, ability's, mods, enemy's and what they should do in specific situations.
when it comes to enemy's, is really that they are bulkier rather than just using gun that just is not good or has a bad roll? because even if "casuals" don't care about what rolls they have on their guns it is still a core feature of the game. i have seen that being the case for a lot of people who don't really care to learn how rolls can really help with higher light enemy's because even if its a high light weapon it doesn't mean its good.
So i think bungie purposefully made the campaign harder so people would have to pay closer attention to what gear they use as to not encounter the same issue in harder playlists.
and to be fully honest the PvP community is much smaller than you think because its mostly made of people religiously play PvP and the few who don't religiously play it are most likely there for a challenge or bounty.
and so i think that there are three communities in d2 "casuals" "pvp" and "PvE" and because of that i think bungie wont be able to appease all players of the community.

[Lovemydps]

I admin it was easy for the first 2 missions then it got a lot harder making us use strand in fights was interesting i loved how they made that happen. Although there were a lot of OMG moments where the fighting was just to much but it was not to bad that i quit. Just said well Lets try that again. lol But saying you did it in 3-4 hours, I dont know, Did you even listen to the storyline? Did you enjoy any of the content or just click though it?

[Trooper-N1004307]

I agree that Bungie have made the game harder but generally the new DLC worlds are harder as the light level of the enemies is increased compared to the previous worlds where they are brought up to the new min level (1600) - so this part isn't new.

But with the changes to Vanguard and other areas were players will be 5-15 levels below the enemy by code then it has gotten harder and means for a lot of activities you won't be "overpowered".

Forcing people to use Strand with minimal abilities unlocked also did make parts of the campaign harder.

Putting all new exotic armor past solo legendary lost sectors means a lot of casual players will never obtain it.

[Mr.Lost]

Originally posted by Lovemydps:

I admin it was easy for the first 2 missions then it got a lot harder making us use strand in fights was interesting i loved how they made that happen. Although there were a lot of OMG moments where the fighting was just to much but it was not to bad that i quit. Just said well Lets try that again. lol But saying you did it in 3-4 hours, I dont know, Did you even listen to the storyline? Did you enjoy any of the content or just click though it?

i sped ran it if i want to figure out the story, i would just read the lore and i did watch some of the cutscenes. im just more interested in the endgame content. plus i think Osiris is hella annoying i just wanted his voice out of my ears.

[Mr.Stoj]

No expansion should be even worth 50 dollars, plus the campaign was 2-3 hours of a story. I will pass.

[Nakos]

As I've said elsewhere: Inserting greater granularity into the game's difficulty is good. Pushing the decision as to what level of difficulty to engage with down to the player level is also good.

(As an example: The ability to choose a "Classic" mode or a "Legendary" mode when playing the Witch Queen and Lightfall campaigns).

Raising the "floor" of difficulty for everything? That's bad, it takes away a lot of player choice.

[Lovemydps]

That's your own right.

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by Nerrinas:

The mobs on Neptune are incredibly high light levels for some bizarre reason, so at 1760 you're by design meant to be 'eating ♥♥♥♥' in terms of damage dealt. A lot of them are 1780 base, and during public events and Terminal Overload / Strike Force start hitting 1810.

Every expansion since at least Forsaken has had max power enemies. Forsaken had wandering bosses in the Dreaming City, Black Armory had forge scavengers, Shadowkeep has the open world nightmares and knights, Beyond Light had the brig patrol and Witch Queen had the Lucent executioners.

Lightfall did have more than usual because Bungie specifically wanted Neomuna to feel more dangerous but this types of encounters aren't new and like you said as you level up they become more "accessible."

[Darth Bane]

I like difficulty increases. The WQ and Lightfall legendary campaigns feel great to me. There are parts that randomly feel like more design time could have helped. Overall? I'm rather happy with the results. That being said I feel like lost sectors and content that rely heavily on RNG, with horrible drop rates, feel worse than ever.

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by Darth Bane:

That being said I feel like lost sectors and content that rely heavily on RNG, with horrible drop rates, feel worse than ever.

They'll be fine in a couple weeks when people start hitting pinnacle cap and building up the artifact power to start matching the high power level requirements.

[Darth Bane]

Originally posted by Mez Koo:

Originally posted by Darth Bane:

That being said I feel like lost sectors and content that rely heavily on RNG, with horrible drop rates, feel worse than ever.

They'll be fine in a couple weeks when people start hitting pinnacle cap and building up the artifact power to start matching the high power level requirements.

I can farm them at 1803 light. It just isn't enjoyable. Having more light can make things easier but it doesn't change the fact this isn't fun. Maybe I'm the minority on this one though.