Elitism in PVP

[Moriibund]

Trials is suppose to be for the top 10% of players, blah blah... Okay, so I guess you would be cool if dungeons could only be done solo? or maybe if all raids were always on contest mode? There is nothing in Destiny that is as non-accessible, toxic, try hard, as trials. No freelance because 'We DoN't WaNt To SpLiT tHe PoOls'... Every LFG is "Have 9000 k/d, will be checking'... Yea, maybe if the game mode wasn't such try hard dog sh- people would play it. Even the pvp players are leaving trials. And the top 1% are doing 'carries' because they know that having an activity that only 1% of players can get loot from will kill the activity. I just want a f-ing reed's for PVE but nah, you gotta 'get gud'. It's like these people think anyone can be an NBA all star if they just try harder. I'm a PVE main, it took me 3 weeks because of bad RNG to get to 1560, I'll never go flawless, and that makes me angry because it locks guns away, because of this I keep trying and failing and ultimately quitting the game for a week. I'm sure the toxic try hards will respond with 'who cares', But if you care about the health of any mp game, you should care. When players are leaving the game because of an activity, the population will continue to drop and even the top 10% won't be able to go flawless... it'll be the 1%, then the .5%... They need to restructure the entire thing so that loot is accessible but there is still a route for the prestige. /rant

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Publicado originalmente por Mez Koo:

Its also kind of weird to use grandmasters and master raids as a reference when you haven't done either (unless GM Report[grandmaster.report] is wrong). If you're assume "oh its just pve it can't be that hard" then you're wrong, as Jackal has pointed out many times they aren't as "accessible" as you think.

And just like that a big piece of the puzzle is revealed.
I am in no means amazing at GMs but I have clears... I don't even see attempts with him.
That is for sure him, there was only 1 Moriibound in Destiny tracker and I wanted to avoid bringing these up but this pretty much invalidates his entire argument.

I was finding it incredibly odd how there was this massive disconnect on what GMs are like in the LFG, even more so with Master raids.

To be fair, that report doesn't really go over the other seasons.
I stopped for awhile at the start of Season 9 and none of my GMs can be viewed there.

Though this does make me realize I need to go back to using the damn LFG.... my current 'play for fun' clan rely on me to carry most times. :|

[Moriibund]

Publicado originalmente por Mez Koo:

Quit obsessing on going flawless and "needing" adept reed's regret, trials overall is accessible and anyone can get 6 guaranteed piece of trials loot in addition to leveling up saint for his "free" god rolls as well as being able to focus the engrams into the weapons you want to farm.

I don't know how you could "plateau" so low and feel like you can't improve unless its age or a disability of some kind but have you tried changing settings around? I used to always prefer higher dpi/sensitivity but I forced my self to lower it so I wasn't flicking/flinching my shots as much as my aim became a lot more consistent as well as a better screen and higher frame rate.

I spent plenty of hours tuning my sensitivity in aim trainer and while I did play on a higher sensitivity that was hurting my tracing ability it wasn't by much. It is likely age related as I am starting to suffer from RSI symptoms. But I don't know what you consider 'so low' like outside of trials I tend to hover around 1k/d and 50% win rate and that has been the case for most FPS games I've played all the way back to socom. But trials is another beast all together.

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Publicado originalmente por Moriibund:

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

It literally has.

That was your stance.

Which means it is a skill issue and you even admit it.
You are FINE with GMs and Master Raids being like that because they are.
Try to do a GM when you aren't a pinnacle cap.
Then even then, if you aren't pulling your weight you will most likely get kicked out of the GM, happens all the time. So yeah, being able to bypass the basic standard doesn't mean people aren't going to kick you and you are acting like ONLY trials gets sweaty.

Same with the master raid.

Your point is you can't ever get the weapons because your skill is at its max.
Okay and what about alllllll the other 90% of the community who can't do a GM?
Should we lower them too?

Like what is your arugment overall if it isn't the fact that people don't want to carry you which I point out that no one wants to carry people through Master raids or GMs... people get booted all the time.

You are not even reading what I am typing anymore. I DON'T GET BOOTED FROM TRIALS, I can't even get into the f-ing group, solo's who don't have at least 1.5 k/d will never get to even try. Pinnacle is not hard to get, like at all, so you get to pinnacle and you can at least try GMs with a group. Anyone can do it. AGAIN... If 90% of players can not ever complete a GM then yes it is too hard. I am happy to help people through Raids and GMs. But where are the people willing to give people even a damn chance in trials? There aren't any. It is not impossible for people to complete GMs or Raids, not from what I have seen, if that is the case then that also needs to change. But 90% of people simply CAN'T go flawless, not even once.

I am reading what you are saying.
I am saying that you are having a YOU problem.

Your issue is LFG won't let you in because of your KD.
And yeah, you dont NEED to get into the group... you can solo queue and get two randoms, if that is not good enough then you are at the mercy of what others demand for a requirement.

SAME goes with GMs.
Just because you are AT pinnacle cap if you go in and are a carry, guess what happens?
Like I keep saying this and you keep ignoring it.
You are going back to square one because people kick those who struggle and are a carry.

The ONLY difference with trials is that they are using what they can see from your stats.
GMs are the same, you don't get into a GM unless you are at pinnacle cap.

Like I dont know why you aren't getting that?
You are saying you can get to the requirement LFGs want for GM, yeah okay that isn't my argument. My argument is each LFG for each type of activity has different demands and once you are in if you are lacking you get kicked.

If your argument is you have chances in GM and Master Raids.... guess what?
You have a search function built into the game for Trials. There is your chance and because YOUR skill lacks and can be tracked guess what? No one in the LFG is going to take you in.

All Trials LFG does is has a more defined determination of skill that can be seen prior.

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Alright since there is a giant circle we are doing I'm going to sum it up:

Your argument is Trials LFG standards are too high for you.

My statement is you can play trials without LFGing and you can earn the weapons without even winning, you simply want the adept version.

You bring up GMs and Master raid as being more accessible.

I tell you that GMs require a standard too and that Master raids require a really high standard.

Your rebuttal is those you can get to in time.

My rebuttal is you still will get kicked if you are lacking in skill for the GMs or the Master Raid. Trials LFG can just see your skill level prior to you joining.

Your counter is, that isn't what you are talking about.
Help me out here, what is confusing?

[Moriibund]

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Alright since there is a giant circle we are doing I'm going to sum it up:

Your argument is Trials LFG standards are too high for you.

My statement is you can play trials without LFGing and you can earn the weapons without even winning, you simply want the adept version.

You bring up GMs and Master raid as being more accessible.

I tell you that GMs require a standard too and that Master raids require a really high standard.

Your rebuttal is those you can get to in time.

My rebuttal is you still will get kicked if you are lacking in skill for the GMs or the Master Raid. Trials LFG can just see your skill level prior to you joining.

Your counter is, that isn't what you are talking about.
Help me out here, what is confusing?

No, that is a pretty accurate summation of the discussion. I believe it is elitism to judge a player based only on number, but people do it, they do it in PVE as well, I think we agree on this. We all know this is a problem with-in Destiny's community. And as you have pointed out, the issue may lay in the ability to more preemptively judge a player with-in trials. This culminates into what I believe is an unobtainable section of the game. I don't think it is the same in other areas. As you and another have pointed out, maybe I am ignorant, but I have done contest mode Vow, I can not fathom GMs, and master raids being leagues harder then that. If they are I will say that is also an issue. And you are also correct that this is a 'ME' issue, this is my opinions about how the game and the community could be better, maybe I am wrong. But I love Destiny enough that I want to discuss with others how it can be better so that I might continue to love it. I played pre-shadow keep and quit when sunsetting was announced, it killed my reason to play the game, I know I was not the only one... If we do not discuss the players 'ME' problems, they become 'US' problems and players leave, and player population is important. I don't think 'GITGUD' is constructive to the people involved or helpful to the overall health of the game. I much prefer discussing the root issue, as you have, and coming to an understanding of what the issues are and ultimately trying to find a solution to make the most out of the game for everyone. I don't want to take away from the prestige of completing something hard for 10% of the people, at the same time I believe that the things that effect game play, the 'loot' should be obtainable. Don't lock adept weapons to 10% of the player base, but exclusive shaders, banners, titles... sure. But again, this is my problem with the game, and it's my opinions. Others share them, some don't... so what is the middle ground?

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Publicado originalmente por Moriibund:

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Alright since there is a giant circle we are doing I'm going to sum it up:

Your argument is Trials LFG standards are too high for you.

My statement is you can play trials without LFGing and you can earn the weapons without even winning, you simply want the adept version.

You bring up GMs and Master raid as being more accessible.

I tell you that GMs require a standard too and that Master raids require a really high standard.

Your rebuttal is those you can get to in time.

My rebuttal is you still will get kicked if you are lacking in skill for the GMs or the Master Raid. Trials LFG can just see your skill level prior to you joining.

Your counter is, that isn't what you are talking about.
Help me out here, what is confusing?

No, that is a pretty accurate summation of the discussion. I believe it is elitism to judge a player based only on number, but people do it, they do it in PVE as well, I think we agree on this. We all know this is a problem with-in Destiny's community. And as you have pointed out, the issue may lay in the ability to more preemptively judge a player with-in trials. This culminates into what I believe is an unobtainable section of the game. I don't think it is the same in other areas. As you and another have pointed out, maybe I am ignorant, but I have done contest mode Vow, I can not fathom GMs, and master raids being leagues harder then that. If they are I will say that is also an issue. And you are also correct that this is a 'ME' issue, this is my opinions about how the game and the community could be better, maybe I am wrong. But I love Destiny enough that I want to discuss with others how it can be better so that I might continue to love it. I played pre-shadow keep and quit when sunsetting was announced, it killed my reason to play the game, I know I was not the only one... If we do not discuss the players 'ME' problems, they become 'US' problems and players leave, and player population is important. I don't think 'GITGUD' is constructive to the people involved or helpful to the overall health of the game. I much prefer discussing the root issue, as you have, and coming to an understanding of what the issues are and ultimately trying to find a solution to make the most out of the game for everyone. I don't want to take away from the prestige of completing something hard for 10% of the people, at the same time I believe that the things that effect game play, the 'loot' should be obtainable. Don't lock adept weapons to 10% of the player base, but exclusive shaders, banners, titles... sure. But again, this is my problem with the game, and it's my opinions. Others share them, some don't... so what is the middle ground?

Look.
I'm going to go ahead and apologize for being passive aggressive.
I know you were venting more than anything but I always have an issue when people want to make such and such more accessible.

There are things I ABSOLUTELY hate in Destiny, Trials one of them and Gambit being the other.

Ultimately this is more of a vent than a serious issue with from what I can see in your OP.
I think adept weapons SHOULD be locked because it gives more incentive for people to do things and even if we do lock them to just shaders and such, its going to cause issues still.

If they aren't outrageously cool people are going to be upset and if they are they are going to be upset even more, you cant win.

And I agree I don't think git gud is constructive either, but I don't think that complaining about things you can obtain and blaming it on others is really constructive either. It sucks but it is fair. You have crafting, GMs for other adept weapons, and Master raids for timelost.

Crafting is there for anyone who puts in the work, GM is there for people who are skilled enough, Timelost is there for the absolute hardest PvE players, and Trials is there for PvP exclusive players.

There are people who pretty much exclusively only do PvP and they deserve something too.

[Moriibund]

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Publicado originalmente por Moriibund:

No, that is a pretty accurate summation of the discussion. I believe it is elitism to judge a player based only on number, but people do it, they do it in PVE as well, I think we agree on this. We all know this is a problem with-in Destiny's community. And as you have pointed out, the issue may lay in the ability to more preemptively judge a player with-in trials. This culminates into what I believe is an unobtainable section of the game. I don't think it is the same in other areas. As you and another have pointed out, maybe I am ignorant, but I have done contest mode Vow, I can not fathom GMs, and master raids being leagues harder then that. If they are I will say that is also an issue. And you are also correct that this is a 'ME' issue, this is my opinions about how the game and the community could be better, maybe I am wrong. But I love Destiny enough that I want to discuss with others how it can be better so that I might continue to love it. I played pre-shadow keep and quit when sunsetting was announced, it killed my reason to play the game, I know I was not the only one... If we do not discuss the players 'ME' problems, they become 'US' problems and players leave, and player population is important. I don't think 'GITGUD' is constructive to the people involved or helpful to the overall health of the game. I much prefer discussing the root issue, as you have, and coming to an understanding of what the issues are and ultimately trying to find a solution to make the most out of the game for everyone. I don't want to take away from the prestige of completing something hard for 10% of the people, at the same time I believe that the things that effect game play, the 'loot' should be obtainable. Don't lock adept weapons to 10% of the player base, but exclusive shaders, banners, titles... sure. But again, this is my problem with the game, and it's my opinions. Others share them, some don't... so what is the middle ground?

Look.
I'm going to go ahead and apologize for being passive aggressive.
I know you were venting more than anything but I always have an issue when people want to make such and such more accessible.

There are things I ABSOLUTELY hate in Destiny, Trials one of them and Gambit being the other.

Ultimately this is more of a vent than a serious issue with from what I can see in your OP.
I think adept weapons SHOULD be locked because it gives more incentive for people to do things and even if we do lock them to just shaders and such, its going to cause issues still.

If they aren't outrageously cool people are going to be upset and if they are they are going to be upset even more, you cant win.

And I agree I don't think git gud is constructive either, but I don't think that complaining about things you can obtain and blaming it on others is really constructive either. It sucks but it is fair. You have crafting, GMs for other adept weapons, and Master raids for timelost.

Crafting is there for anyone who puts in the work, GM is there for people who are skilled enough, Timelost is there for the absolute hardest PvE players, and Trials is there for PvP exclusive players.

There are people who pretty much exclusively only do PvP and they deserve something too.

I'm not trying to blame others for my inabilities. I am not the top 10% of PVP, I know that and I'm not saying that is anyones fault, or that pvp needs to be balanced to my level. I'm saying that as a loot focused game, it sucks when you can't get some of it. Again, that's my opinion, maybe you think that it's good that people can't get some of the loot, that seems to be where we disagree.

What about sharing the pools? Like between GMs, Master raids, and trials? What are your thoughts on that?

[Azor]

Publicado originalmente por Moriibund:

Publicado originalmente por Azor:

You don't have to go flawless to earn trials weapons. They reworked rewards for that purpose. However, no freelance makes grinding it solo a pain in the ass.

But you do have to to unlock adept versions. I am tired of the 'you don't need it' argument, this game is about grinding the best gear, best armor, god rolled weapons... of course people want the better version of the weapons. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF DESTINY.

Adept weapons are highly overrated. For PvE all it does is allow you to use Adept Big Ones. Which is nice but you really dont need, otherwise every non adept weapons would be bad. You really dont need it.

Besides, grinding Adept Raid and Grandmaster weapons isn't easy either. You have to get good in order to earn them. Why would another source of Adepts be a freebie? If that's what you really want, then play Warframe where you can grind all day for everything you want and never be challenged at all.

You make a poor defence of Freelance when do it by asking for freebies. Especially when you consider the fact that Freelance does not make going flawless any easier.

[Mordekhay]

Me personally I am a heavy PvE player, I love doing master vogs and GMs. About half a year ago I said I want to get those juicy trials loots. So I went to practice on private matches against sweaty pvp players, asked for advice, how to build for pvp. It was hell at first but then I got the gist of it. In season 15 I went flawless 21 times, then even carried a few friends to flawless. Got the gilded seal 2 times now, and I can say I do enjoy trials with my team. Two times I even went flawless on the freelance mode, I was so happy. My clan they call me Morderak (meaning Mordekhay+cancer in my language).

Look there is non flawless pool on the last 2 days of trials, you should get a half decent team and try running flawless on those days.

Ps.: I have 16 years of competitive shooter games experience. It helped me git gud in d2 pvp

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Publicado originalmente por Moriibund:

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Look.
I'm going to go ahead and apologize for being passive aggressive.
I know you were venting more than anything but I always have an issue when people want to make such and such more accessible.

There are things I ABSOLUTELY hate in Destiny, Trials one of them and Gambit being the other.

Ultimately this is more of a vent than a serious issue with from what I can see in your OP.
I think adept weapons SHOULD be locked because it gives more incentive for people to do things and even if we do lock them to just shaders and such, its going to cause issues still.

If they aren't outrageously cool people are going to be upset and if they are they are going to be upset even more, you cant win.

And I agree I don't think git gud is constructive either, but I don't think that complaining about things you can obtain and blaming it on others is really constructive either. It sucks but it is fair. You have crafting, GMs for other adept weapons, and Master raids for timelost.

Crafting is there for anyone who puts in the work, GM is there for people who are skilled enough, Timelost is there for the absolute hardest PvE players, and Trials is there for PvP exclusive players.

There are people who pretty much exclusively only do PvP and they deserve something too.

I'm not trying to blame others for my inabilities. I am not the top 10% of PVP, I know that and I'm not saying that is anyones fault, or that pvp needs to be balanced to my level. I'm saying that as a loot focused game, it sucks when you can't get some of it. Again, that's my opinion, maybe you think that it's good that people can't get some of the loot, that seems to be where we disagree.

What about sharing the pools? Like between GMs, Master raids, and trials? What are your thoughts on that?

And what I keep saying is that you are MORE than fine with the other weapons and other stuff but you aren't fine with this one.

This is why we keep cycling back.

I think that it is good that some people can't get loot because I want there to be strong valid reasons for people to be good at something. Cosmetics and shaders mean nothing a weapon however means they can actually use it and feel like they earned something because it is impossible not to care about a weapon when you absolutely are required to need weapons in this game vs a cosmetic or shader, I have seen some of the top players running around with what looks like mismatched lego set armors. They dont care about something that cant impact their actual performance.

I think that there needs to be loot that not everyone can get and thats the whole idea of adept and timelost. I dont think there needs to be a shared loot pool between them either. GM is probably the lowest skill bracket of all three of them with Master Raids being a lot closer to the Trials skill area.

Just like real life there is going to be things that are going to be unobtainable for you. It doesn't make your overall experience any less not having it so why care? You have your ability to get a regular reeds, WHY do you need the SLIGHTLY better adept version?

Again.... it boils down to entitlement.

[Moriibund]

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Publicado originalmente por Mez Koo:

Its also kind of weird to use grandmasters and master raids as a reference when you haven't done either (unless GM Report[grandmaster.report] is wrong). If you're assume "oh its just pve it can't be that hard" then you're wrong, as Jackal has pointed out many times they aren't as "accessible" as you think.

And just like that a big piece of the puzzle is revealed.
I am in no means amazing at GMs but I have clears... I don't even see attempts with him.
That is for sure him, there was only 1 Moriibound in Destiny tracker and I wanted to avoid bringing these up but this pretty much invalidates his entire argument.

I was finding it incredibly odd how there was this massive disconnect on what GMs are like in the LFG, even more so with Master raids.

To be fair, that report doesn't really go over the other seasons.
I stopped for awhile at the start of Season 9 and none of my GMs can be viewed there.

Though this does make me realize I need to go back to using the damn LFG.... my current 'play for fun' clan rely on me to carry most times. :|

What a joke. I guess all your arguments are made invalid by your lack of trials attempts? 'GMs are not as accessible as you think', yea that's funny. Feel free to check the report again and then tell me I don't know what I am talking about. I have more season runs of trials the Mez has over their whole career, and it took absolutely no time to find a group to attempt the GM (none of which ever kicked anyone) and if you think that GMs have anywhere close to the difficulty that trials has, maybe you should actually TRY to go flawless before telling me I don't know wtf I am talking about. Trials is leagues above any PVE content in terms of difficulty.

[Mez Koo]

Publicado originalmente por Moriibund:

What a joke. I guess all your arguments are made invalid by your lack of trials attempts? 'GMs are not as accessible as you think', yea that's funny. Feel free to check the report again and then tell me I don't know what I am talking about.

We're not the ones saying "grand masters and master raids are easy and I can carry people" while not having experience or attempts in either. I am saying that trials is hard and not for everyone, I have no plans to ever go flawless and get adept loot because I don't really care and can get the regular versions of guns just fine.

Publicado originalmente por Moriibund:

I have more season runs of trials the Mez has over their whole career.

I don't see what that has to do with anything, I got the weapon rolls I wanted along with all the armor for each close and didn't need to play that much, this season I literally got the new auto rifle and scout rifle with rolls I wanted in the first weekend. And just for the record, my overall trials k/d is better than yours and includes all the cliff jumping in the earlier seasons for the pity loot each week.

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Publicado originalmente por Moriibund:

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

And just like that a big piece of the puzzle is revealed.
I am in no means amazing at GMs but I have clears... I don't even see attempts with him.
That is for sure him, there was only 1 Moriibound in Destiny tracker and I wanted to avoid bringing these up but this pretty much invalidates his entire argument.

I was finding it incredibly odd how there was this massive disconnect on what GMs are like in the LFG, even more so with Master raids.

To be fair, that report doesn't really go over the other seasons.
I stopped for awhile at the start of Season 9 and none of my GMs can be viewed there.

Though this does make me realize I need to go back to using the damn LFG.... my current 'play for fun' clan rely on me to carry most times. :|

What a joke. I guess all your arguments are made invalid by your lack of trials attempts? 'GMs are not as accessible as you think', yea that's funny. Feel free to check the report again and then tell me I don't know what I am talking about. I have more season runs of trials the Mez has over their whole career, and it took absolutely no time to find a group to attempt the GM (none of which ever kicked anyone) and if you think that GMs have anywhere close to the difficulty that trials has, maybe you should actually TRY to go flawless before telling me I don't know wtf I am talking about. Trials is leagues above any PVE content in terms of difficulty.

I personally don't enjoy trials.
I want the weapons that come from them but unlike you I don't complain.
I played it enough to get my pinnacle a few times and it was always a terrible experience.

Again entitlement.
I'm sorry you don't have what it takes for LFGs to pick you up or for you to play with randoms and get it that way. Be more likable? Maybe someone will carry you?

Also I never said you didn't know what you are talking about.
I simply pointed out that Master Raids kick people for dropping the ball and so do GMs. It happens OFTEN.

We are never going to get anywhere.
You believe everything should be accessible regardless of skill and I disagree.

[Katgoop]

Whoever plays PvP competitively, or extremely seriously, they're wasting their sweat and frustration. It took me up to Shadowkeep to realise my attempts at playing Destiny 2 PvP as if it was high rank competitive was silly. The game will never be balanced and or fun to play in PvP due to weapon rolls, dlc gated exotics, and subclasses that are way stronger than others, which is why they call it Meta. I'd say my game sense and aim is decent enough to carry randoms in Competitive and Trials Freelance, but not so good that I can solo v 3 people (unless I get on of those GOD moments). If someone believes that skill is a thing in this game, ignore them <3 Their ego is fragile afterall, especially when sticking with the same few weapons everyone uses. As for gear being locked behind the gamemode, and pretty much defended by extremely sweaty and toxic top 0.5% playes, there's nothing we can really do. Trials has always been screwed over in Destiny 2, unless they bring back the old bounty system from Destiny 1 ToO.

[Moriibund]

Publicado originalmente por (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Publicado originalmente por Moriibund:

What a joke. I guess all your arguments are made invalid by your lack of trials attempts? 'GMs are not as accessible as you think', yea that's funny. Feel free to check the report again and then tell me I don't know what I am talking about. I have more season runs of trials the Mez has over their whole career, and it took absolutely no time to find a group to attempt the GM (none of which ever kicked anyone) and if you think that GMs have anywhere close to the difficulty that trials has, maybe you should actually TRY to go flawless before telling me I don't know wtf I am talking about. Trials is leagues above any PVE content in terms of difficulty.

I personally don't enjoy trials.
I want the weapons that come from them but unlike you I don't complain.
I played it enough to get my pinnacle a few times and it was always a terrible experience.

Again entitlement.
I'm sorry you don't have what it takes for LFGs to pick you up or for you to play with randoms and get it that way. Be more likable? Maybe someone will carry you?

Also I never said you didn't know what you are talking about.
I simply pointed out that Master Raids kick people for dropping the ball and so do GMs. It happens OFTEN.

We are never going to get anywhere.
You believe everything should be accessible regardless of skill and I disagree.

It's not entitlement to expect a game to perform the way other areas of the same game perform, but because you don't care about the loot, then f- everyone who does care? Like why are you even here? You don't care about trials one way or the other, just here to argue with the people who do care, because you think I want things easier and handed to me. I want the game play to be in-line with other aspects of the game. GMs are not equatable to Trials, not even close. Let me know when there are people solo-ing trials, and I don't mean solo queue, I wanna see someone who's two team mates jump off a cliff at the start of every round and watch them go flawless... never going to happen and you know it, because trials is not even close to GMs in terms of difficulty.