Elitism in PVP

[Moriibund]

Trials is suppose to be for the top 10% of players, blah blah... Okay, so I guess you would be cool if dungeons could only be done solo? or maybe if all raids were always on contest mode? There is nothing in Destiny that is as non-accessible, toxic, try hard, as trials. No freelance because 'We DoN't WaNt To SpLiT tHe PoOls'... Every LFG is "Have 9000 k/d, will be checking'... Yea, maybe if the game mode wasn't such try hard dog sh- people would play it. Even the pvp players are leaving trials. And the top 1% are doing 'carries' because they know that having an activity that only 1% of players can get loot from will kill the activity. I just want a f-ing reed's for PVE but nah, you gotta 'get gud'. It's like these people think anyone can be an NBA all star if they just try harder. I'm a PVE main, it took me 3 weeks because of bad RNG to get to 1560, I'll never go flawless, and that makes me angry because it locks guns away, because of this I keep trying and failing and ultimately quitting the game for a week. I'm sure the toxic try hards will respond with 'who cares', But if you care about the health of any mp game, you should care. When players are leaving the game because of an activity, the population will continue to drop and even the top 10% won't be able to go flawless... it'll be the 1%, then the .5%... They need to restructure the entire thing so that loot is accessible but there is still a route for the prestige. /rant

[Anders]

Moriibund の投稿を引用：

Anders の投稿を引用：

Raids and Grandmasters -> Hardcore PvE players

Trials and Crucible -> Hardcore PvP players

I'm a PvE main as well. I don't expect my PvE build to be competitive vs a PvP build for obvious reasons. PvP mains have the weapons, the mods, and the armour to make your "enjoyment" of PvP a non starter. Now amplify all that with skilled PvP players working in a team in Trials and you really have no chance. It is what it is. You can't expect to go flawless when you don't put in the same time and dedication or skill that PvP main players do.

Yea, you let me know when raids and GMs are as difficult and exclusive in the loot pool as trials is and all the pvp sweats are not crying about how bs that is... and that will be when I am ok with trials being the way it is. People are OK will exclusive loot.... but it's only exclusive to the pvp world. People wanna come out with the 'you can get by without it' or 'it's only a few adept guns' You have any idea how good an adept reeds with alacrity is for solo pve content?

Mister Wiggles の投稿を引用：

If you dislike it just don't play it.

And this here is the issue with 'gamers' today... so all the people that are sick of the bs trials experience should just quit, and when match times are 20m because no one is filling the queue you answer to the people crying about that is what? 'don't play'? so instead of wanting the game to be better, everyone should just quit and let it die?

Raids are very challenging, so are Grandmaster night falls, and they DO have exclusive weapons, emblems, shaders armour.

Want to do Trials. Do what everyone else does, find out the meta, join a team and communicate to win. You're acting like Trials is difficult ... it isn't, not with the right loadout just like the vast majority of the PvE content in the game. You act like you just want the game to give you the best stuff in the game without putting in the effort.

[Moriibund]

Anders の投稿を引用：

Moriibund の投稿を引用：

Yea, you let me know when raids and GMs are as difficult and exclusive in the loot pool as trials is and all the pvp sweats are not crying about how bs that is... and that will be when I am ok with trials being the way it is. People are OK will exclusive loot.... but it's only exclusive to the pvp world. People wanna come out with the 'you can get by without it' or 'it's only a few adept guns' You have any idea how good an adept reeds with alacrity is for solo pve content?




And this here is the issue with 'gamers' today... so all the people that are sick of the bs trials experience should just quit, and when match times are 20m because no one is filling the queue you answer to the people crying about that is what? 'don't play'? so instead of wanting the game to be better, everyone should just quit and let it die?

Raids are very challenging, so are Grandmaster night falls, and they DO have exclusive weapons, emblems, shaders armour.

Want to do Trials. Do what everyone else does, find out the meta, join a team and communicate to win. You're acting like Trials is difficult ... it isn't, not with the right loadout just like the vast majority of the PvE content in the game. You act like you just want the game to give you the best stuff in the game without putting in the effort.

Yea, the demonstrable majority disagrees with you. you are either a troll or blissfully ignorant. Trials is not 'easy' and raids are not challenging outside of day one. I don't want anything 'handed to me' I am happy to work for stuff. But for the majority of players, their efforts will not matter and they will still be unable to obtain trials adept weapons. GM adept weapons are leagues easier to get, it's not even a comparison. If putting in hundreds of hours every week is having things handed too you, I would hate to see what you do for a living. Trials is the only place in the entire game that is gate kept to the top 10% (for gear). Imagine if day one raid completion gave an exclusive adept weapon, people are upset about day one banners, just imagine how upset people would be if it was a weapon.

[Moriibund]

(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★ の投稿を引用：

Moriibund の投稿を引用：

Except my point is that raids and GMs ARE accessible to everyone. It is so easy to find a group to get you through it. It doesn't matter how much time and effort I put into trials, I can't get to the light house. And the elitist PVPers want it that way. I say, fine, then make the adept raid weapons contest mode only. Make some dungeon weapons adept and only obtainable by going solo flawless, I bet these people who enjoy the way trials works will not enjoy never being able to get an adept palindrome. Everything in Destiny is accessible, except trials.

Why do you need to get to the light house?

You can get reeds from just playing trials, not even winning.

The adept versions are at the light house but if that is your reasoning then you are not really being honest with what really is the issue here. You dont need adept weapons to do crazy things in PvP or PvE.

You don't NEED anything... this game is all about collecting stuff, and not just any stuff... people chase god rolls for a reason. I want an adept reeds because it's the best option for that slot/ element/ weapon type. It's the same reason I'll run 100 lost sectors in a row for a single extra base stat... If you are willing to settle for only what you NEED, then why are you even playing the game? You don't NEED to.

[Mez Koo]

Moriibund の投稿を引用：

(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★ の投稿を引用：

Why do you need to get to the light house?

You can get reeds from just playing trials, not even winning.

The adept versions are at the light house but if that is your reasoning then you are not really being honest with what really is the issue here. You dont need adept weapons to do crazy things in PvP or PvE.

You don't NEED anything... this game is all about collecting stuff, and not just any stuff... people chase god rolls for a reason. I want an adept reeds because it's the best option for that slot/ element/ weapon type. It's the same reason I'll run 100 lost sectors in a row for a single extra base stat... If you are willing to settle for only what you NEED, then why are you even playing the game? You don't NEED to.

You don't need adept reed's regret a normal one will do just fine. Just farm trials rank and during the second rank up track saint will hand you the god roll if you still haven't gotten one or got other stuff.

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Moriibund の投稿を引用：

(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★ の投稿を引用：

Why do you need to get to the light house?

You can get reeds from just playing trials, not even winning.

The adept versions are at the light house but if that is your reasoning then you are not really being honest with what really is the issue here. You dont need adept weapons to do crazy things in PvP or PvE.

You don't NEED anything... this game is all about collecting stuff, and not just any stuff... people chase god rolls for a reason. I want an adept reeds because it's the best option for that slot/ element/ weapon type. It's the same reason I'll run 100 lost sectors in a row for a single extra base stat... If you are willing to settle for only what you NEED, then why are you even playing the game? You don't NEED to.

Soooo your argument is not that it is elitism.....
Your argument is you can't find people to carry you through at a desirable success rate so you can collect a weapon you don't have.

Like, Timelost weapons people in LFG will absolutely kick you if you don't have a certain level of skill. If you hadn't done the raid X amount of times or have a certain raid linked title you get booted so pretty much the same argument you are making for Trials exist in the LFG for PvE content as well but since that isn't something you are personally going for its fine.

I mean yeah more people are willing to carry people for Timelost but I mean it requires a high ceiling for it to be done. Hell, even GMs if we are talking about the playerbase as a WHOLE requires a high ceiling. It is extremely hard to carry someone who is dead weight through a GM.

Your argument boils down to a skill issue ultimately.
You are fine with GM adept and Raid Timelost to be incredibly hard and pretty much unobtainable for the average Destiny player but because the Trial weapons are above yours it is now a serious issue.

If you cant have the same argument for the other things then your argument is flawed from the get go. To go into a GM people require a certain artifact level, certain gear, and absolutely they want to see you at pinnacle cap, same for the raid.... there are steep requirements that the average playerbase almost never gets too since GMs are around top 10% of the entire community and Master Raid is way less than that.

[Azor]

You don't have to go flawless to earn trials weapons. They reworked rewards for that purpose. However, no freelance makes grinding it solo a pain in the ass.

[Moriibund]

(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★ の投稿を引用：

Moriibund の投稿を引用：

You don't NEED anything... this game is all about collecting stuff, and not just any stuff... people chase god rolls for a reason. I want an adept reeds because it's the best option for that slot/ element/ weapon type. It's the same reason I'll run 100 lost sectors in a row for a single extra base stat... If you are willing to settle for only what you NEED, then why are you even playing the game? You don't NEED to.

Soooo your argument is not that it is elitism.....
Your argument is you can't find people to carry you through at a desirable success rate so you can collect a weapon you don't have.

Like, Timelost weapons people in LFG will absolutely kick you if you don't have a certain level of skill. If you hadn't done the raid X amount of times or have a certain raid linked title you get booted so pretty much the same argument you are making for Trials exist in the LFG for PvE content as well but since that isn't something you are personally going for its fine.

I mean yeah more people are willing to carry people for Timelost but I mean it requires a high ceiling for it to be done. Hell, even GMs if we are talking about the playerbase as a WHOLE requires a high ceiling. It is extremely hard to carry someone who is dead weight through a GM.

Your argument boils down to a skill issue ultimately.
You are fine with GM adept and Raid Timelost to be incredibly hard and pretty much unobtainable for the average Destiny player but because the Trial weapons are above yours it is now a serious issue.

If you cant have the same argument for the other things then your argument is flawed from the get go. To go into a GM people require a certain artifact level, certain gear, and absolutely they want to see you at pinnacle cap, same for the raid.... there are steep requirements that the average playerbase almost never gets too since GMs are around top 10% of the entire community and Master Raid is way less than that.

My point is that GM nightfalls and master raids are about preparation, as you've said, reaching the right power level, getting the right gear, etc. it's a time investment, anyone can do it if they have the desire to put forth the effort to do so, this can not be said about trials, doesn't matter how many hours I put in, doesn't matter what gear I have... It is simply not the same. There is nothing in D2 that keeps loot from players the way that trials does. I'm not sure what the answer would be, if it's freelance, or an always flawless pool, or what... What I do know is that I want to grind gear, I can't, and the 10% that can would love to keep it that way... That is elitism. I am happy to teach people raids, or help people through GMs, because my k/d is under 1 no one will even try to run trials with me and as others have pointed out, communication is a big deal.

[Moriibund]

Azor の投稿を引用：

You don't have to go flawless to earn trials weapons. They reworked rewards for that purpose. However, no freelance makes grinding it solo a pain in the ass.

But you do have to to unlock adept versions. I am tired of the 'you don't need it' argument, this game is about grinding the best gear, best armor, god rolled weapons... of course people want the better version of the weapons. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF DESTINY.

[Mez Koo]

Moriibund の投稿を引用：

What I do know is that I want to grind gear, I can't, and the 10% that can would love to keep it that way... That is elitism.

You're obviously not listening to anyone, you can get all the trials armor and weapons and you don't even need to win a single match.

[b4ds33d]

anyone crying about elitism need to look in the mirror. if you don't REALLY care about being "on their level," why does the elitism even register on your radar? people have gotten so soft.

[Gearboxer]

Take away the getting paid to play like twitch and the tube, there wouldn't be this problem. The developers are really marketing towards the so called pro gamers. Just like any other sport, when the boring content ends and the charisma is gone, so will the money move on to other endeavers and this game will dry up for pvp.

[Moriibund]

Mez Koo の投稿を引用：

Moriibund の投稿を引用：

What I do know is that I want to grind gear, I can't, and the 10% that can would love to keep it that way... That is elitism.

You're obviously not listening to anyone, you can get all the trials armor and weapons and you don't even need to win a single match.

A. D. E. P. T. weapons are unlocked via flawless... You are obviously not listening. Adept weapons are just straight better and if you are not trying to grind the best items in the game, then why are you even here?

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Moriibund の投稿を引用：

(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★ の投稿を引用：

Soooo your argument is not that it is elitism.....
Your argument is you can't find people to carry you through at a desirable success rate so you can collect a weapon you don't have.

Like, Timelost weapons people in LFG will absolutely kick you if you don't have a certain level of skill. If you hadn't done the raid X amount of times or have a certain raid linked title you get booted so pretty much the same argument you are making for Trials exist in the LFG for PvE content as well but since that isn't something you are personally going for its fine.

I mean yeah more people are willing to carry people for Timelost but I mean it requires a high ceiling for it to be done. Hell, even GMs if we are talking about the playerbase as a WHOLE requires a high ceiling. It is extremely hard to carry someone who is dead weight through a GM.

Your argument boils down to a skill issue ultimately.
You are fine with GM adept and Raid Timelost to be incredibly hard and pretty much unobtainable for the average Destiny player but because the Trial weapons are above yours it is now a serious issue.

If you cant have the same argument for the other things then your argument is flawed from the get go. To go into a GM people require a certain artifact level, certain gear, and absolutely they want to see you at pinnacle cap, same for the raid.... there are steep requirements that the average playerbase almost never gets too since GMs are around top 10% of the entire community and Master Raid is way less than that.

My point is that GM nightfalls and master raids are about preparation, as you've said, reaching the right power level, getting the right gear, etc. it's a time investment, anyone can do it if they have the desire to put forth the effort to do so, this can not be said about trials, doesn't matter how many hours I put in, doesn't matter what gear I have... It is simply not the same. There is nothing in D2 that keeps loot from players the way that trials does. I'm not sure what the answer would be, if it's freelance, or an always flawless pool, or what... What I do know is that I want to grind gear, I can't, and the 10% that can would love to keep it that way... That is elitism. I am happy to teach people raids, or help people through GMs, because my k/d is under 1 no one will even try to run trials with me and as others have pointed out, communication is a big deal.

No, GM and master raids are about skill and gear requirement.
No one is going to bring you into trials if you are rocking something goofy.

And no, GMs and Master raids are not about time investment, it is about meeting a standard. Gear ALONE won't get you into LFG groups you need skill to show you are competent with completions and raid titles and GMs even meta gear if you don't have the skill you drag the entire team down and odds of someone leaving are high.

Your argument has major flaws in it and you are picking and choosing what your view affects instead of what your WHOLE argument affects.

You can't have everything you want.
You won't get picked for Master raids if you don't have certain raid challenge based titles or certain completions.
You won't get picked for GMs if you aren't at a certain point.

Trials that point involves KD to prove your skill.
GM that point involves pin cap and meta weapons.
Master raid involves pin cap, meta weapons, raid completion and titles.

Youre simply just upset that your personal skill doesn't allow you to get picked for certain content.... the other end-game stuff is also incredibly high skill ceiling too but you aren't making a fair argument about that since you meet or you can get carried often enough....

Your entire argument is 'I cant get carried through this'.... cause if you don't have the skill to do master raid, guess what you can fake it until you make it with that but you STILL need to find a group that is going to put up with it, JUST like trials. This is what I've been trying to tell you.... even if you log 2000 hours in if you can't do it you can't do it, you will NEED a carry and you are upset that Trials mostly doesn't tolerate hard carries most of the time.

[Mez Koo]

Moriibund の投稿を引用：

Mez Koo の投稿を引用：

You're obviously not listening to anyone, you can get all the trials armor and weapons and you don't even need to win a single match.

A. D. E. P. T. weapons are unlocked via flawless... You are obviously not listening. Adept weapons are just straight better and if you are not trying to grind the best items in the game, then why are you even here?

If you can't compete in pvp then adept weapons aren't going to magically win the game for you all they do is give you access to adept mods which can already be used by gm or master raid weapons. Like I said, saint will just hand you a god roll reed regret instead of going through all the sweat of trying to go flawless and then getting a trash adept version.

[Blazed_minD]

There has always been this stigma from the hardcore pvp community that you need to either "git gud" or just simply don't play. These players also tend to forget that they didn't just immediately start at the top.

Hell, imagine if I were to apply this mentality in reverse. I'd be carrying a lot less pvp players through pve mechanics they clearly have never bothered to learn.