Sunsetting fundamentally ruins the game.

[HyperDimension Bliss]

I've played D2 off and on over the years, and one of the things I did early on in my career was collecting the Black Armoury weapons. They have my favourite designs in the game, there's plenty to get, and both the process of obtaining and using them afterward was fun. Then I took a break from the game and came back to find out that I couldn't upgrade my collection. That's when I learned about the cardinal sin of game design that is "sunsetting." For no good reason other than "we're too lazy to actually balance a weapon" or just "this is old, we're gonna force you to get something new", all of the hours I put into getting, upgrading and masterworking the pearl of my collection was suddenly for naught, and the only options I was allowed to have were keep using my favourite weapons and die constantly due to them being too weak, or get whatever Bungie decided the new hotness was. This didn't make me think "well, I better start grinding for those new weapons then." This made me think "well why even bother now."

Why should I care about getting any loot at all when Bungie's just gonna break its kneecaps for no good reason by the time I return to the game again. What's the point in upgrading and getting attached to a favourite weapon if all that's gonna happen is it being forcibly thrown in a ditch to rot with nothing you can do about it. Why should I play your game when you actively and intentionally punish anyone who has any personal attachment to their loot that isn't purely based on getting the best meta weapons available in the current season.

I don't care about Crucible. I don't care about the meta. I don't care about Mountaintop or Recluse or whatever notoriously overpowered thing that *somehow* justifies sunsetting existing.

All I want is to be allowed to use my precious Ringing Nail again without being punished for it. She's the one weapon I put the most effort into and now all I can do is feel depressed watching her gather dust in my vault. I don't *want* to hate D2 but making loot worthless in your game that's entirely about loot just kills any and all desire to play.

[TheVoidSpirit]

Sunsetting got sunset a few Seasons ago. Everything that already is sunset will stay that way, but everything that isn't will never get sunset. Otherwise Gear from Season of the Worthy, Season of Arrivals and Season of the Hunt would be sunset already.

[Mez Koo]

How does something that happened well over a year ago ruin the game now? Gear is so much better now that you should be getting new stuff anyway.

[HyperDimension Bliss]

Originally posted by Mez Koo:

How does something that happened well over a year ago ruin the game now? Gear is so much better now that you should be getting new stuff anyway.

Spend dozens of hours getting and upgrading weapons that actually look good only to come back and be told that you have to use these new weapons that look like a dog's dinner, somehow be expected to just accept it and have absolutely no negative reaction. Sure mate. Sure.

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by HyperDimension Bliss:

Originally posted by Mez Koo:

How does something that happened well over a year ago ruin the game now? Gear is so much better now that you should be getting new stuff anyway.

Spend dozens of hours getting and upgrading weapons that actually look good only to come back and be told that you have to use these new weapons that look like a dog's dinner

A) we have a transmog system now for armor so you can wear any fashion you want B) we're constantly getting new weapons with way more powerful perks and stats than old trash they sunsetted including mountaintop, recluse, and dilerium/wendigo.

Originally posted by HyperDimension Bliss:

somehow be expected to just accept it and have absolutely no negative reaction. Sure mate. Sure.

Having opinions is great but stating something that isn't even part of the game anymore (at least actively) is "fundamentally ruining the game" is just non-sense.

I don't know if you phrased it poorly or you're misinformed but gear sunsetting was effectively a one time thing and isn't a part of the game anymore. Yes what got locked will stay locked but stuff you get now isn't locked anymore and there are so many easy sources for high stat armor and you can "focus" one of the stats to get the core stat you want and we've got weapon crafting now so you can level up and select the parts and perks of your weapon.

I will agree that it sucks that old favorites got trashed but new stuff is easy to get and is great to use.

[Emurinus]

Was this made on Internet Explorer or something? Sunsetting itself was sunsetted over a year ago so anything from S10 onward can still be infused to max level. They aren't going to undo it completely either, because it then screws over everyone else that deleted stuff under the pretense that sunsetting was going to be permanent.

It happened. It left. Your guns are still usable in a large amount of content. Armor has transmog now too so that's a complete non-issue.

[mark1971]

OP, Sunsetting was carried out for the second time since the original Destiny, theoretical, it can happen again. I say it was a mistake, but it happened and I have to live with it if I wanna continue.

Just to be fair, Bungie also made a lot of improvements, like weapon crafting (which I really appreciate) and returning classic arsenals like Suros or Veist. But they are also "radical" in (with) their development, which has obviously his ups and downs. Not everybody can stand that. ; )

[>//The_FALCON]

blame pvp. if we didn't have it we'd have no need for sunsetting and unavailable op perk combinations

[Nakos]

Originally posted by HyperDimension Bliss:

I've played D2 off and on over the years, and one of the things I did early on in my career was collecting the Black Armoury weapons.

The game is an ARPG. one of the key carrots of the game design is that the process of shooting bad guys provides cool loot.

If all you ever do is use some weapon from several years ago and upgrade it, then Bungie isn't reaching you. That's actually a large part of how I felt during S14 and S15, I collected some of the weapons from those seasons, but I never really used them because I already had some I liked.

This season (S16) Bungie has put a number of mechanics in place to encourage players to try new weapons out. (Weapon leveling and Deepsight Resonance in particular). They've also added weapon crafting (as Mez mentioned), and Banshee-44 has a rotating stock of popular weapons from previous seasons.

Additionally, there's a bunch of new weapons sets for both the expansion and for the season, which (as Mez also mentioned) have a whole bunch of cool new perks. And you should in fact be trying them out.

This is a seasonal game. In addition to the game-play loop about shooting bad guys and getting rewarded with drops, there's also the need to provide subtle variety shifts over time so that the game doesn't start to feel stale (for a given value of "variety", games are games, eventually they'll feel stale regardless). Every company that runs a model like this one tends to try to "shift the meta" over time.

Sunsetting was one way of "shifting the meta". It was a "hard" method with definitive cutoffs on particular weapons and gear, and, as you've said, it was widely disliked. But players pretty much always dislike any sort of durability mechanic. However, they're still necessary sometimes.

Regardless, Bungie stopped using Sunsetting a number of seasons ago. Given the span of the initiative, and how players had to make decisions about what to keep and what to discard and most active players have already dismantled most/all of their old sunsetted gear, they are NEVER going to UNsunset anything that might be left because that would be completely unfair to anyone who'd dismantled stuff. The hue and cry over that would be huge. But they are reissuing stuff and they might eventually get around to reissuing the Black Armory gear.

There are a bunch of aesthetic sets out there now, many of which look pretty good (and some of which look kinda silly, but whatever). Personally, I'm fond of the look of the Gnawing Hunger and the Seventh Seraph Carbine myself. I'm sorry if you think working towards the best perks on a new set of weapons (again) is an onerous task, but ... that is kinda the game.

Bungie may have given up on "hard" limits for meta shifting, but they haven't given up on meta shifting in general, they've just moved to "soft" methods.

I'm sorry your favorite weapon(s) are sunsetted, but give some of the new ones a try, you might find you like them.

[apocryphalbob]

Originally posted by HyperDimension Bliss:

Originally posted by Mez Koo:

How does something that happened well over a year ago ruin the game now? Gear is so much better now that you should be getting new stuff anyway.

Spend dozens of hours getting and upgrading weapons that actually look good only to come back and be told that you have to use these new weapons that look like a dog's dinner, somehow be expected to just accept it and have absolutely no negative reaction. Sure mate. Sure.

Ahhhhh, the good old days! When it was bliss to be a Guardian. Everything was just right and need never change. They call that noise music!? What is he/she/they wearing?
I remember when it was all fields round 'ere!
Down with all that sort of thing!

[Asgaeroth]

My collection being dumpstered left too bad a taste in my mouth. Bungie is permanently on my blacklist because I don't trust them anymore. Just another wannabe EA, step on anyone for any reason if they think it might make them a buck. Worthless people.

[Maxine]

I liked sunsetting, since it's actually forced me to try new guns, it was badly done for sure but now I use many different weapons then before.

[Aspen_Wolf]

Originally posted by HyperDimension Bliss:

I've played D2 off and on over the years, and one of the things I did early on in my career was collecting the Black Armoury weapons. They have my favourite designs in the game, there's plenty to get, and both the process of obtaining and using them afterward was fun. Then I took a break from the game and came back to find out that I couldn't upgrade my collection. That's when I learned about the cardinal sin of game design that is "sunsetting." For no good reason other than "we're too lazy to actually balance a weapon" or just "this is old, we're gonna force you to get something new", all of the hours I put into getting, upgrading and masterworking the pearl of my collection was suddenly for naught, and the only options I was allowed to have were keep using my favourite weapons and die constantly due to them being too weak, or get whatever Bungie decided the new hotness was. This didn't make me think "well, I better start grinding for those new weapons then." This made me think "well why even bother now."

Why should I care about getting any loot at all when Bungie's just gonna break its kneecaps for no good reason by the time I return to the game again. What's the point in upgrading and getting attached to a favourite weapon if all that's gonna happen is it being forcibly thrown in a ditch to rot with nothing you can do about it. Why should I play your game when you actively and intentionally punish anyone who has any personal attachment to their loot that isn't purely based on getting the best meta weapons available in the current season.

I don't care about Crucible. I don't care about the meta. I don't care about Mountaintop or Recluse or whatever notoriously overpowered thing that *somehow* justifies sunsetting existing.

All I want is to be allowed to use my precious Ringing Nail again without being punished for it. She's the one weapon I put the most effort into and now all I can do is feel depressed watching her gather dust in my vault. I don't *want* to hate D2 but making loot worthless in your game that's entirely about loot just kills any and all desire to play.

boi howdy wait till lightfall drops and they remove the moon and the dreaming city

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by Asgaeroth:

My collection being dumpstered left too bad a taste in my mouth. Bungie is permanently on my blacklist because I don't trust them anymore.

Not blacklisted enough to still care about the game and engage with it. Are you hoping that they change something or do you come back to continue see other people complain to make your decision/opinion feel better.

[R A Z E R]

The only positive about sunsetting gear is that you don't see recluse/mountaintop and revoker anymore even when there are better weapons now compared to recluse, mountaintop on the other hand was one of the most toxic weapons to go against and revoker was downright broken due to it's reversal of fortune perk. Not forgotten/luna's howl were also in a league of their own, there's barely any reason to use any other handcannon if you had any of those 2.

Those are the only outliers i can think of that justifies sunsetting.

[trukr]

At the time I hated it, but they put an end to the system. I really don't care about the sunset gear anymore, why would I. They even replaced Marty :) Honestly, the new gear makes me not care about that old stuff.