Endgame Content is Artificially Difficult

[Fervent_Griffin]

I've been working on completing Grandmaster Nightfalls for a while now. I enjoy a good challenge, and these appear to be the hardest part of Destiny 2 as a whole considering that only 6% of players have actually completed a single Grandmaster nightfall. Despite this, I find them to be the most infuriating experiences to players all throughout the community due to their insanely unforgiving nature in all of the wrong aspects of the game.

More often than not, glitches, unintentional affects of design, and CHAMPIONS inevitably result in a fireteam wiping more often than the enemies that are firing countless grenades at them. I have been wiped more times by a champion refusing to die to a finisher than a creature killing me by firing rounds at me from near or far. In the last nightfall I tried to complete, a teammate of mine randomly dies in his bubble due to a grenade being stuck on the surface, which, subsequently destroyed his bubble and resulted in our wipe.

Every aspect of a Grandmaster's difficulty feels as though it breaks the game rather than improving it. Champions are given so much health that they glitch out and refuse to stun sometimes, especially overloads. In addition, enemies don't change their tactics or gain new mechanics that change the way you approach them. They, at most, have shields, and occasionally, have a strange outlandish modifier than also breaks the game and ruins the experience for players.

Essentially, the difficulty seems to come from a poorly thought out design philosophy that follows the lines of "if it has a bigger health pool and hits harder, then it's gonna be more challenging." While this is true, it doesn't take into consideration the health of the sandbox and the lack of fun the players will have while facing these "challenging" enemies. Just take a look at Dark Souls.

In every souls game, the difficulty is set, but there are enemies that are still challenging even for pros that new players can beat. This of course is due to Dark Souls allowance for time so players can choose when to approach a boss. However, the bosses move-sets are usually what increase their difficulty in addiction to their increased health-pool and damage output. In essence, the challenge is less about health because players can increase their damage and health significantly before facing any challenge, but he boss remains challenging due to the intentional design of its move-sets and fighting style

Destiny 2 is a great game, and I have spent more than enough hours in game to show how much I've supported Bungie and their endeavors. Despite this, I can't say their Grandmasters are enjoyable because they simply don't become more challenging in an engaging and healthy manner for the game. I hop Bungie considers completely revamping the mechanics involved in these engagements, because I really like challenges, but these are challenges, their annoying, drawn-out, unforgiving, and most importantly, an un-fun experience for players. If games that came out years ago can introduce unique mechanics to increase difficulty whilst maintaining and enjoyable experience, than Bungie should learn from it's predecessors a bit.

[Mez Koo]

Don't like it don't play it.

[Delta]

This sounds like a hard case of get gud.

I've never once had a Champion "Glitch out" and not die or have their special mechanic not be stopped.

Sounds a lot like you or a teammate are claiming they did what they did to an enemy but you or them actually didn't and are now trying to shift the blame.

[Symbol]

The key to GMs is communication & a well co-ordinated team. I.e stun locking an overload with 2x bows continuously and the 3rd getting headshots with a linear fusion / arbalest - easy kill…and deal with ALL ads nearby first. I got the seal and the following day gilded with different groups of good players who know what they’re doing too.
When you hear players on LFGs saying things like ‘Hollowed Lair need warlock well’ don’t join that team…that is not the strat for that GM.
I’ll give you a hand if you need it

Oh and maybe your team mates weren’t holding the bow long enough to proc the overload shot sometimes…

[Ixamesh]

Originally posted by Delta:

I've never once had a Champion "Glitch out" and not die or have their special mechanic not be stopped.

Sounds a lot like you or a teammate are claiming they did what they did to an enemy but you or them actually didn't and are now trying to shift the blame.

Well, not exactly what OP described, but it happens
https://youtu.be/167Olvh76h8?t=11
https://youtu.be/L_2la-jATHQ
https://youtu.be/iw4FwoZd7UU

[Leto]

me i like to play master, that's where i have fun
good balance between having a decent challenge that requires you to have at least a viable build, and keeping the power fantasy alive.

i don't know who enjoys chipping at a hobgoblin with a bow for 1 min but i certainly don't.

[Goosetave]

GM's, master raids and master dungeons exist solely to gatekeep top-end gear and give a reason to min-max builds. And while the first reason is contentious, i reckon the second one is pretty damn good to have. I used to play Warframe and the reason i left was that there was no drive to improve my gear past a certain point, as there was no endgame (plus many other reasons but that's the main one).

[TheVoidSpirit]

Originally posted by Goosetave:

GM's, master raids and master dungeons exist solely to gatekeep top-end gear and give a reason to min-max builds. And while the first reason is contentious, i reckon the second one is pretty damn good to have. I used to play Warframe and the reason i left was that there was no drive to improve my gear past a certain point, as there was no endgame (plus many other reasons but that's the main one).

To get the best gear, you have to clear the hardest content. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Goosetave]

Originally posted by TheVoidSpirit:

Originally posted by Goosetave:

GM's, master raids and master dungeons exist solely to gatekeep top-end gear and give a reason to min-max builds. And while the first reason is contentious, i reckon the second one is pretty damn good to have. I used to play Warframe and the reason i left was that there was no drive to improve my gear past a certain point, as there was no endgame (plus many other reasons but that's the main one).

To get the best gear, you have to clear the hardest content. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

On it's own it stands to reason, but when it's behind unreasonably difficult content that only a few can contend with, i think it's less reasonable. Now, i don't think GM's are at that point, it's still an achievable goal with enough determination and a moderate amount of time to play per week, but it also wouldn't take much to push it over that edge.

[keysy]

Originally posted by Philosophical_Cactus:

Champions are given so much health that they glitch out and refuse to stun sometimes, especially overloads.

Those overload as wholes are super annoying. Do not care about stun shots at all.

[jimmy]

that is mostly the reason why i hate master content. its not challenging its just "you die faster if you dont grind 10 hours of bounties every single day"

[jimmy]

Originally posted by keysy:

Originally posted by Philosophical_Cactus:

Champions are given so much health that they glitch out and refuse to stun sometimes, especially overloads.

Those overload as wholes are super annoying. Do not care about stun shots at all.

i would be happy if bungo deletes overloads from the game completely

[Emurinus]

My only beef with endgame content is that champions are a terrible system in execution and Bungie refuses to actually make them fun or engaging.

[Electroshock]

Sometimes you get overload champs instantly recovering from being stunned

[Pocahawtness]

I have many fond memories of instantly vaporising, but I can't say that much of it was glitching. They hit hard. Very hard. And Grand Master is very unforgiving. But the only glitch I have ever encountered is the odd map issue where things were transparent to enemy fire that should not be.

[maxkidd]

Originally posted by Goosetave:

GM's, master raids and master dungeons exist solely to gatekeep top-end gear and give a reason to min-max builds. And while the first reason is contentious, i reckon the second one is pretty damn good to have. I used to play Warframe and the reason i left was that there was no drive to improve my gear past a certain point, as there was no endgame (plus many other reasons but that's the main one).

*my crew of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ some with no mods clearing raids* I can say doesn't need any min maxing and it doesn't gatekeep at all XD. Also steel path?