Recluse nerf; Why not buff every other weapon?

[CazadorDeLobo]

Is it normal for gameplay to get worse over time, as weapons that are fun and efficient to use just get nerfed into mediocrity?

Does Bungie ever buff weapons? Serious question!

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by Hex:

Originally posted by Last Burp:

Some pinnacle weapons should not exist, and the recluse is the perfect example of this. SMG with the power of LMG when Master of arms is active 7stacks of rampage ffs, and you can keep it forever! This perk has killed all weapons in game, why use any other? It outshines any exotic smg, and a lot on non smgs. It is broken as Luna Howl perk was on 180 handcannon frames.

Yup, it's like shooting a MG HEAVY WEAPON. It makes any other primary weapon completely OBSOLETE

I still switch to breakneck if I need range but yeah 90% of the time its izanagi, recluse, and wendigo.

[Nefarious]

It'll still be that setup next season unless they release some better new weapons (doubtful) next season.

*oh and people will still whine about recluse guaranteed.

[HiJacked]

Originally posted by Mez Koo:

Originally posted by Hex:

Yup, it's like shooting a MG HEAVY WEAPON. It makes any other primary weapon completely OBSOLETE

I still switch to breakneck if I need range but yeah 90% of the time its izanagi, recluse, and wendigo.

Recluse will still retain its enormous damage buff though, the Master of Arms perk is still the best damage perk in the entire game, you'll just have to hit headshots for it to work, which is not hard in PvE at all. In PvP you would just have to aim a bit better, but even then 2-3 headshots will already damage a guy severely to just finish him off with body shots.

[Stardama69]

Nerfing overpowered items makes the game better, not worse... And yeah, the recluse is not " the only weapon that helps us effectively farm content ", lmao. I find weapon balance, at least in pve, much better than Warframe, as most guns of legendary quality and above, and even some rare ones, are endgame viable and useful in one way or the other (doesn't mean than some do not stand out above the rest, of).

[Oldman3000]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, It.... has a ttk (time to kill) of 0.8 seconds with the master of arms buff and that doesn't even require precision shots. Get the master of arms buff and kill someone with body shots in slightly under 1 second.
Don't get me wrong, I got the recluse easily and had a lot of fun with it in PVE but I can see how it can be a little stronger than intended by the devs in PVP.

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by HiJacked:

Originally posted by Mez Koo:

I still switch to breakneck if I need range but yeah 90% of the time its izanagi, recluse, and wendigo.

Recluse will still retain its enormous damage buff though, the Master of Arms perk is still the best damage perk in the entire game, you'll just have to hit headshots for it to work, which is not hard in PvE at all. In PvP you would just have to aim a bit better, but even then 2-3 headshots will already damage a guy severely to just finish him off with body shots.

I agree, I use recluse 90% of the time and probably will continue doing so, but sometimes you do need some range that recluse can't provide which is where other primaries can come into play.

[Mez Koo]

Originally posted by oldman3000:

Correct me if I'm wrong but, It.... has a ttk (time to kill) of 0.8 seconds with the master of arms buff and that doesn't even require precision shots. Get the master of arms buff and kill someone with body shots in slightly under 1 second.
Don't get me wrong, I got the recluse easily and had a lot of fun with it in PVE but I can see how it can be a little stronger than intended by the devs in PVP.

I think its something like 0.4-0.5 second ttk with master of arms, it will probably still be able to do that but it will require precision hits which a lot of other weapons can do with some perks.

[Kashra Fall]

Recluse isn't suppose to saw enemies in half. It's an SMG and other SMG's can't come close to what it can currently due, due to the precision body damage. Once it is fixed, you'll have to aim, just like you do with current SMG's. There's really no problem there.

[CazadorDeLobo]

I see that most people are either misrepresenting my original comment, or getting completely hooked onto one part of it(namely the Recluse nerf) without providing any good reason why other weapons should not be buffed. If this is the extent of the community's genius, it's no wonder so many weapons are just trash.

[Hex]

Originally posted by Mez Koo:

Originally posted by HiJacked:

Recluse will still retain its enormous damage buff though, the Master of Arms perk is still the best damage perk in the entire game, you'll just have to hit headshots for it to work, which is not hard in PvE at all. In PvP you would just have to aim a bit better, but even then 2-3 headshots will already damage a guy severely to just finish him off with body shots.

I agree, I use recluse 90% of the time and probably will continue doing so, but sometimes you do need some range that recluse can't provide which is where other primaries can come into play.

Sure, the few occasions but you know what they say about exceptions and rules.

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by CazadorDeLobo:

I see that most people are either misrepresenting my original comment, or getting completely hooked onto one part of it(namely the Recluse nerf) without providing any good reason why other weapons should not be buffed. If this is the extent of the community's genius, it's no wonder so many weapons are just trash.

If you buff other weapons to be on par with the recluse (Which is rediculously overpowered and overused.) then you'd have a power flux. Which you do not have with the other weapons (As of current.) so why would Bungie buff every other weapon that doesn't have an issue when it is used. Up to the level of an overused and admittedly (By bungie's words) too strong of a legendary?

[Lusus Symphonia]

Originally posted by CazadorDeLobo:

If this is the extent of the community's genius, it's no wonder so many weapons are just trash.

And there it is, rinse and repeat Cazador thread.

Ask a question.
Disregard clear replies.
Be condescending.

[Ixamesh]

Originally posted by HiJacked:

Recluse will still retain its enormous damage buff though, the Master of Arms perk is still the best damage perk in the entire game, you'll just have to hit headshots for it to work, which is not hard in PvE at all. In PvP you would just have to aim a bit better, but even then 2-3 headshots will already damage a guy severely to just finish him off with body shots.

It's 20% dmg buff on headshots and 90 something on bodyshots that makes bodyshots = headshots in terms of damage. They are going to nerf bodyshot dmg. Other DMG buffs like rampage are 33% at max stacks with multi kill clip being 50%. Recluse has never been better in terms of DMG. It is better in terms of ease of use.

Originally posted by oldman3000:

Correct me if I'm wrong but, It.... has a ttk (time to kill) of 0.8 seconds with the master of arms buff and that doesn't even require precision shots. Get the master of arms buff and kill someone with body shots in slightly under 1 second.
Don't get me wrong, I got the recluse easily and had a lot of fun with it in PVE but I can see how it can be a little stronger than intended by the devs in PVP.

0.47 with perk active. 0.67-1.1 without buff. It looks good, but it's a pub stomp weapon. For serious games players have always preferred HCs on PC: Luna and NF (pre-nerf), Spare Rations, TLW, Ace, Austringer because Recluse lacks range and requires a setup.

[Nibbie]

Originally posted by CazadorDeLobo:

I see that most people are either misrepresenting my original comment, or getting completely hooked onto one part of it(namely the Recluse nerf) without providing any good reason why other weapons should not be buffed. If this is the extent of the community's genius, it's no wonder so many weapons are just trash.

People have mentioned it, you just haven't read it or understood it. Let me lay it out more explicitly then.

Ideally, the game's content is at a certain amount of challenge. Your equipment selection, in addition to your skill, determines how challenging an activity is. Typically games are fun when they aren't too hard or too easy, which is where game balance comes in. You can't patch player skill differences, but you can patch equipment. Ideally, how powerful equipment is combined with general player skill puts most content they want to do on just the right difficulty to be fun. If equipment is too powerful, it allows lower skill players to complete content easier than they should, or harder content that they shouldn't be able to, bypassing some of the long term growth you are meant to go through. On the other side, high skill players trivialize even challenging content with equipment that is too powerful. That is where the vast majority of the community, as well as Bungie evidently, consider the Recluse to be: too powerful, so it trivializes content. If you buff every other weapon to Recluse levels, then the challenge of the game is trivialized so much more, which reduces the overall amount of fun had by players. By nerfing the recluse back towards other weapons, overall game challenge is retained, more people have more fun, which translates to more purchases, which is of course the main goal of a business.

[Emurinus]

It's safer to nerf one weapon than buff a bunch of others. Doing the latter risks powercreeping, especially if it's many weapins at once and/or they didn't need buffs anyways.