Just started, but Kabbu seems weak?

[ุReshy]

Maybe he gets better later on, but currently he's kind of the weakest link in the party. He has an innate +2 HP over other characters, but a single badge invalidates that benefit. He's got the most restrictive targeting in the game, without much in the way of benefits (ignoring flip enemies). He doesn't get any innate bonuses to power or defense like you'd anticipate on a tank-type character. I'm not unsure how to use him as anything else than the party's pharmacy. Is there something I'm missing?

[Icy-Cream]

Not really, depends on the badges you get and wear. My Kabbu has 6 Basic attack causing 13+ damage while doing frozen drill.

[Nibbie]

Originally posted by ุReshy:

He's got the most restrictive targeting in the game, without much in the way of benefits (ignoring flip enemies).

"Vi doesn't have much in the way of benefits (ignoring flying enemies)."

Besides flipping, he also simply ignores some defense, so he is naturally good at taking out any enemy with defense.

[ุReshy]

Originally posted by Nibbie:

Originally posted by ุReshy:

He's got the most restrictive targeting in the game, without much in the way of benefits (ignoring flip enemies).

"Vi doesn't have much in the way of benefits (ignoring flying enemies)."

Besides flipping, he also simply ignores some defense, so he is naturally good at taking out any enemy with defense.

I mean Vi has a multi-hit move, so she sees the strongest gains from attack boosts. She can target any any in and position.

[gongher]

Just make him stand at the front and give him the favorite one badge. That way he can use his better health to his advantage since he's gonna be targeted more while doing decent damage with armor pierce, and he'll boost your main attacker's power at the same time. (You can do this in any position with taunt but it costs TP tho)

[Songbird]

He's fairly useless outside of very specific strats, yes. My Kabbu just used Hard Charge (with the medal that lets you pass buffs to other teammates) and the badges that restore HP/TP when waiting for most of the game, or he'd throw items on Vi for TP/poisoned status/attack buffs.

I just had Vi stand in the front for +1 attack and threw all the defense buffs on her, since 1 attack is worth 5 damage per turn for her (or 3 when using needles). The alternative is using Taunt with Back Support, Favorite One, etc. (Note that when I played, it was impossible to have Kabbu in the back and Vi in front, which made Back Support Kabbu basically useless.)

The thing is that even with the -1 attack per turn in the same combat round, Vi still eventually does more damage with -2 attack than Kabbu does, so Vi should take literally every single turn that isn't Hard Charge/Mediatate/items/freezing enemies with Leif, and Kabbu has no role as a worse attacker than Vi with no hard CC.

[ุReshy]

Originally posted by Songbird:

He's fairly useless outside of very specific strats, yes. My Kabbu just used Hard Charge (with the medal that lets you pass buffs to other teammates) and the badges that restore HP/TP when waiting for most of the game, or he'd throw items on Vi for TP/poisoned status/attack buffs.

I just had Vi stand in the front for +1 attack and threw all the defense buffs on her, since 1 attack is worth 5 damage per turn for her (or 3 when using needles). The alternative is using Taunt with Back Support, Favorite One, etc. (Note that when I played, it was impossible to have Kabbu in the back and Vi in front, which made Back Support Kabbu basically useless.)

The thing is that even with the -1 attack per turn in the same combat round, Vi still eventually does more damage with -2 attack than Kabbu does, so Vi should take literally every single turn that isn't Hard Charge/Mediatate/items/freezing enemies with Leif, and Kabbu has no role as a worse attacker than Vi with no hard CC.

Yeah... I've seen the same thing. I think Kabbu should've been given better intrinsic stats so that he has that over V. Maybe a point of innate defense or attack would've helped?

[Songbird]

Kabbu innately pierces 1 defense with some of his moves including his basic attack, while Vi has to pay 2 extra TP for no additional damage aside from piercing 1 defense. In the early game, before you start to really get attack stacking going, Kabbu will often do the most damage of everyone, or is equally damaging but slightly more tanky.

The fact that hit count is by far the biggest factor in dealing damage means he's ultimately a lost cause damage-wise, though, since Vi can eventually hit for like 35-55 damage per turn. And obviously both Leif and Vi are more valuable in most encounters for being able to lock enemies down with freezing spells or numbing needles. But Kabbu can still be made to have a useful role if you want. I was impressed by what someone else did with him here (video is a postgame superboss):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RhfA9MUSkA
(I personally did the same fight by dipping heavily into powerful revival items and stacking poison + critical HP defense badges on Vi.)

[Opwith]

I had it so Kabbu had life steal with his attacks and with successful perfect guards, more armour, favourite one. Vi and Leif only got hit with AOE attacks because I would taunt every turn using no FP and healing when I got a perfect guard. Kabbu is tanky and use the perfect guard heal to make him impossible to kill. By the time I perfected my build, I did not have Kabbu go down a single time even against hard mode final boss.

[Liro Raériyo]

i abused kabu with the perfect guard and spike bod badges to just passively neutralize enemies, kabu turns the enemies turn to attack into kabus turn to attack.

his taunt is also the only way to prevent golden seedlings from fleeing if you are trying to take one down.

[Songbird]

Do those strats still work on Hard Mode + Hard Hits though? The attempt to neutralize damage through things other than crowd control abilities seemed completely futile early game, and by lategame I figured I should just throw all the damage mitigation on the character that could use the poison and low HP defense badges rather than Kabbu. Plus, taunting every turn is fairly taxing on your actions and TP, and Kabbu doesn't reliably tank without doing that.

I did play on the version where paralyzing needles applied two turns of paralysis and did more damage, though, which might change how important damage mitigation is by a pretty large amount (as normal enemies basically never attacked all game after getting electric needles).

[ุReshy]

Originally posted by Songbird:

Do those strats still work on Hard Mode + Hard Hits though? The attempt to neutralize damage through things other than crowd control abilities seemed completely futile early game, and by lategame I figured I should just throw all the damage mitigation on the character that could use the poison and low HP defense badges rather than Kabbu. Plus, taunting every turn is fairly taxing on your actions and TP, and Kabbu doesn't reliably tank without doing that.

I did play on the version where paralyzing needles applied two turns of paralysis and did more damage, though, which might change how important damage mitigation is by a pretty large amount (as normal enemies basically never attacked all game after getting electric needles).

I'm still kinda baffled it takes 3TP, an entire level's worth of FP.

[lkhalil9607]

i was honestly super dissapointed at the lack of stat boost medals in the early game outside of the two health boosting ones. like obviously there shouldn't be a ton but even just one attack medal and one armor medal would have gone a loooong way to having each character have a more unique play style through the early game. i'm just starting chapter 3 and so far there is really no clear gameplay difference between the characters outside of the kabbu flip, vi knockdown, leif freeze. i mean maybe it's because i'm playing it on hard mode, but judging from other comments that's not really the case lmao. i really don't dislike the game it's just disappointing how samey the combat encounters feel early on because there's basically nothing you can do differently and the +1 dmg feels the same on everyone

[ุReshy]

Originally posted by lkhalil9607:

i was honestly super dissapointed at the lack of stat boost medals in the early game outside of the two health boosting ones. like obviously there shouldn't be a ton but even just one attack medal and one armor medal would have gone a loooong way to having each character have a more unique play style through the early game. i'm just starting chapter 3 and so far there is really no clear gameplay difference between the characters outside of the kabbu flip, vi knockdown, leif freeze. i mean maybe it's because i'm playing it on hard mode, but judging from other comments that's not really the case lmao. i really don't dislike the game it's just disappointing how samey the combat encounters feel early on because there's basically nothing you can do differently and the +1 dmg feels the same on everyone

That's been a problem I've had entire way through the game, the characters feel too similar statistic wise that the only thing that sets them apart is how good their attacks are, which Vi has the strongest, and Kabbu has the weakest.

That and the game's progression feels very flattened out, level ups barely change anything about how a character plays and many badges only work when you have a whole set of them and not individually.

[Songbird]

Originally posted by lkhalil9607:

i was honestly super dissapointed at the lack of stat boost medals in the early game outside of the two health boosting ones. like obviously there shouldn't be a ton but even just one attack medal and one armor medal would have gone a loooong way to having each character have a more unique play style through the early game. i'm just starting chapter 3 and so far there is really no clear gameplay difference between the characters outside of the kabbu flip, vi knockdown, leif freeze. i mean maybe it's because i'm playing it on hard mode, but judging from other comments that's not really the case lmao. i really don't dislike the game it's just disappointing how samey the combat encounters feel early on because there's basically nothing you can do differently and the +1 dmg feels the same on everyone

You can already stack attack up to +4 or +5 by mid-chapter 3 which makes Vi do an extra 10 or 14 damage.

Front row: Attack +1
Break spell for Leif/Burly Bomb: Defense down 1, which is basically attack up 1 for everyone
Poison attacker: Attack +1
Attack buff items (e.g. Spicy Berry, Spicy Candy, Spicy Fries; the latter two trigger Weak Stomach to poison you as well): Attack +1
Use Hurricane Toss: +1 damage IF the enemy has at least 1 base defense. (Note: This still does +1 damage even if you have subsequently reduced the enemy's defense to 0 with a debuff, as long as it originally was at least 1.)

This is not counting Favorite One which is an option as well, if a bit awkward.

After chapter 3 you also gain access to Deep Taunt (not great, but technically a stacking defense down for a turn), Last Attack (I think two of them by the end of chapter 4 if you can do the related sidequests), Power Exchange, Hard Charge (3 charge stacks for one turn and 5 HP), and of course the almighty A.D.B.P. Enhancer which gives all of Vi's skills an extra hit. If you optimize your build you can kill the next few chapter bosses without them being able to do anything.

You also can see some pretty clear uses for each party member as an attacker at this stage:
Kabbu: specializes in ground AoE with Dash Through
Vi: specializes in single-target damage
Leif: specializes in crowd control, buff/debuffs (with medals), shielding. Also has a full-field AoE in Icefall.

As you get more skills like Vi's needle upgrades and some of the team spells, there starts to be a bit more crossover in roles characters can do, but ultimately no one can even come close to Vi as an attacker (unless Leif wants to spend 11 TP every turn) to the point where it's often correct to give her all three turns in combat.

[ุReshy]

Originally posted by Songbird:

Originally posted by lkhalil9607:

i was honestly super dissapointed at the lack of stat boost medals in the early game outside of the two health boosting ones. like obviously there shouldn't be a ton but even just one attack medal and one armor medal would have gone a loooong way to having each character have a more unique play style through the early game. i'm just starting chapter 3 and so far there is really no clear gameplay difference between the characters outside of the kabbu flip, vi knockdown, leif freeze. i mean maybe it's because i'm playing it on hard mode, but judging from other comments that's not really the case lmao. i really don't dislike the game it's just disappointing how samey the combat encounters feel early on because there's basically nothing you can do differently and the +1 dmg feels the same on everyone

You can already stack attack up to +4 or +5 by mid-chapter 3 which makes Vi do an extra 10 or 14 damage.

Front row: Attack +1
Break spell for Leif/Burly Bomb: Defense down 1, which is basically attack up 1 for everyone
Poison attacker: Attack +1
Attack buff items (e.g. Spicy Berry, Spicy Candy, Spicy Fries; the latter two trigger Weak Stomach to poison you as well): Attack +1
Use Hurricane Toss: +1 damage IF the enemy has at least 1 base defense. (Note: This still does +1 damage even if you have subsequently reduced the enemy's defense to 0 with a debuff, as long as it originally was at least 1.)

This is not counting Favorite One which is an option as well, if a bit awkward.

After chapter 3 you also gain access to Deep Taunt (not great, but technically a stacking defense down for a turn), Last Attack (I think two of them by the end of chapter 4 if you can do the related sidequests), Power Exchange, Hard Charge (3 charge stacks for one turn and 5 HP), and of course the almighty A.D.B.P. Enhancer which gives all of Vi's skills an extra hit. If you optimize your build you can kill the next few chapter bosses without them being able to do anything.

You also can see some pretty clear uses for each party member as an attacker at this stage:
Kabbu: specializes in ground AoE with Dash Through
Vi: specializes in single-target damage
Leif: specializes in crowd control, buff/debuffs (with medals), shielding. Also has a full-field AoE in Icefall.

As you get more skills like Vi's needle upgrades and some of the team spells, there starts to be a bit more crossover in roles characters can do, but ultimately no one can even come close to Vi as an attacker (unless Leif wants to spend 11 TP every turn) to the point where it's often correct to give her all three turns in combat.

Might have noticed, but most of those are conditional benefits, not consistent ones. There's nothing in the game akin to getting the Super and the Ultra Hammers from Paper Mario.