Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
4 
Report this post
Alternately, with the upcoming ziplines and tubeway in the experimental version you can set up a sort of fast travel system for your beavers.
This is why districts help. By decreasing the distance they have to move, they don't run out of food and water so much.
It may be possible to game the work hours so they quit work just in time to be hungry/thirsty and all, but seems like it would be a rather short day.
this mod will make you feel better when playing this game by a lot.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3386793388
This is such a pain that I posted a potential official solution to the suggestions thread.
I was planning on doing at least one world on hard and modless... But some things need to be modded it seems.
I essentially beat the game well enough for it to count for me. I can divert the water if there's badtide, I can retain water throughout badtide and drought.. I've seen enough vanilla, at least the negative wonky aspects of it. It counts to me.
I haven't figured out the wonky alien-jelly water physics and how it seems multiple dams (at different height levels) exponentially increase the instability of the water (likely due to the momentum gained from dropping somewhat vertically, though oddly enough it becomes much more exaggerated the further down the channel it is after more and more dams, even if the verticality is tame and it's like a one-block difference... Compared to the first dam you might build near a waterfall and there's like no issues at all... Until it's connected to more dams further along, then somehow that works itself back to cause problems earlier in the chain when it never had those problems before) and how to efficiently work around that besides just building a tall levee wall to give higher tolerances... But I'm assuming that's just a problem with the game's implementation of the fluids trying to implement splashback and to retain momentum, but the forces seem to be equalized along the entire horizontal... well... entirety, of the water, rather than focusing them near impact points, so you can't really solve the issue by building focused side-walls near the dams to funnel the sideways splashing water (which is the result of the sudden impact into the dam/floodgate) back into the channel... Because it seems that that force applies to the entire length of the channel, not realistically or semi-realistically at the actual points of contact. So... You need to build an equal wall alongside the entire length it seems. Which is unrealistic and unfortunate, it costs more resources, and it's un-intuitive and kind of silly.
It also seems at times that the physics seem comically exaggerated, but that could mostly just be because of the problem mentioned prior, where it isn't accurately localized at points of impact but equalizes across the entire horizontal plane, which may make it seem much more exaggerated.
Again, realistically it should apply the majority of the force at the points of impact, requiring perhaps an extra wall structure built onto the floodgates/dam, to catch water which spreads vertically (which it doesn't seem to impart much vertical momentum much at all) and horizontally at the point of impact, maybe also dispersing force backwards but definitely not like as is portrayed in this game. Realistically you would build walls and a structure to catch the initial splash, and you could set up the dam height to account for the wobblyness along the rest of the channel resulting from said impacts... Which again, would be exponentially lower than the displacement at the immediate point of impact. But you still might have to account for it.
This is all my blind reaction by the way, I by no means actually understand how it actually works in-code. I'm just basing it off of my observations.
There is actually a super simple workaround for this issue, minimal code rewrite needed. It should greatly minimize the negative feedback loop and avoid penalizing the player for doing nothing wrong... While not having to rewrite the AI. It's... Again, actually surprisingly simple. Assuming the code is well-structured enough to anticipate a rudimentary change like this.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1062090/discussions/1/591764020514593627/
Its a very small 'problem' with almost no impact, and every code change is a big deal (last place I worked changing like one character, say from > to ==, would end up being 2-3 days (of man hours not real days, split over 5 or so people) of documenting, testing, validating, etc the why it was done and what effect it is supposed to have and so on).
I wouldn't say it's a "very small problem." Which is why I dedicated so much time to explaining why it was an issue and why it warranted a change in my linked post.
One, it will need to be solved eventually if this product wants to fully release. Maybe they are putting it off to do a more comprehensive overhaul at a later time, but I still think the critique is warranted.
Two, the debuffs aren't exactly small. -25% movement speed is quite a lot, and especially adds up over time. -50% work speed is also quite a bit. You might think they are alleviated rather quickly, but they also occur very frequently.
Three, and perhaps the biggest issue, is the psychological impact it has on the player, (Negative reinforcement, the repetitive nature of it, and thus removing enjoyment from the game.) Beavers needlessly shouting they need water and food all the time, which is already supplied to them. It's distracting, and especially for new players, it can make the player think he is doing something wrong.
It also just generally saps some of the enjoyment out of the game, constantly see them complain about non-problems with big bubbles and witnessing their debuffs. It's unpolished, and perhaps above all, it's intrusive. It's very obvious, very apparent. The bug/oversight is being broadcast to you every time it happens.
It's not good design, and frankly it's more annoying, although less impactful, than the propensity of the beavers to do a job then idle when it's done instead of seeking another line of work, because there's not even an optional checkbox, to enable that behavior. Lumberjacks with no trees to chop down, or farmers with no crops to harvest... Of course they can't (or at least don't) see the growth rate of the crops and calculate whether to wait or change jobs. But the player can't even prioritize that job and then set a secondary job optionally (which may or may not result in the beaver running back and forth a lot), or set up schedules and time tolerances. "If crops don't grow for X amount of time, move to another job. Work that job for at least Y amount of time, then if crops grew, return to priority job."
But, given all the issues that arise, I can cut some slack. A prioritization system would be hard to implement. And if you play well enough and efficiently enough, eventually you can afford for the beavers to slack around and do nothing, beyond a certain point in the game. Conveniently when your colony gets particularly big, and it would be an even bigger pain to have to constantly micro-manage them.
This however? This is a constant issue that persists throughout the entire game. It's visually messy and unpolished. You could spend that time prioritizing bugs that have a greater technical effect, but the psychological effect is pretty big with this one. The beavers constantly crying wolf, it's just unpleasant, and it would be a considerable benefit to the game's experience to spend just about any reasonable amount of time fixing it.
It's somewhat kind of related to the problem I also have with the water physics (specifically dams increasing the jiggling oscillation effect which floods the surrounding areas.) The problem isn't that the water isn't realistic, and that you can't work around the jank and find a solution if you are experienced enough... It's specifically because it is un-intuitive and I have witnessed a decent sample size of people turned off from the game because they tried to fix the water's problems with realistic-ish water solutions, but to no avail. It looks like water, it claims to be water, but it acts like something completely different, hence players may get fed up trying to troubleshoot it. It doesn't need to behave exactly like water, but it should behave within tolerable parameters for the target audience.
It's because the water is unpredictable and unmanageable without some quite out there solutions or overcompensations, which makes the fluid system bad. Not that it isn't "realistic enough." Although semi-realistic solutions should be tested, and the fluid system fine-tuned properly behave within them. Even if it's not the most efficient way (given to perhaps workarounds given how it technically behaves as it only pretends to be a fluid and has exploitable properties,) it should meet any given player's expectations by a fair margin to allow them to grant you suspension of disbelief.
At the state that this game is at, and at the price point, it should be more polished in these areas. I want the devs to make more money, I want them to be able to improve the game more, both for myself and everyone else. But excuses aren't going to get them anywhere, and I want this game to have the widest reach as soon as possible, to ensure its viability as a product. I can forgive a lot of jank, I can make excuses that "oh it's early access the polish isn't there yet," for any number of things I witness, not limited to the beavers building themselves into a stuck position. This is one of those things that it needed to be in the product yesterday. You can't do it soon enough, especially given how simple it would be. This is a pretty blatant oversight, and it doesn't inspire confidence in the consumer or produce faith and trust that the product will get somewhere. Rather it does the opposite, and makes the consumer wonder where the priorities are.
So the downsides are even larger than I first thought.
Not only do they provide unnecessary alerts to the player about deprivation (Which is entirely outside of the player's control), they fluctuate the wellbeing score, personally and of course then, overall.
I don't think I need to explain how this is not good. Even if you could theoretically argue that the fluctuations don't matter in the grand scheme of things (which I completely disagree, it happens multiple times per day for each working beaver. The frequency of which it happens, constantly, every day, means that these debuffs are consistently being applied. You can try to space out food and water, which I stated I already do, but that is a bandaid fix to a much deeper problem. (I originally did it to just reduce travel time when they went to eat, not knowing that it was also conveniently a meta-strategy to work around a game-bug.) Working speed usually doesn't matter because they will leave their posts, get something to eat, and then return to their jobs. Except in the event they already have a work task queued, then they just brute force it very slowly, again losing quite a bit of efficiency. But the movement speed always applies, even while they are walking to the stashes to replenish their dehydration, they do that slower. And you can lose a lot of potential speed. it's not unlikely that their wellbeing will fall under a threshold, where a -10 unavoidable debuff being applied, they will effectively get a 40% speed nerf, just randomly and arbitrarily. Assuming they don't also get a hunger debuff at the same time, which could then cost them up to 55% speed. This isn't even mentioning working speed, or life expectancy fluctuations either. They aren't one-off things, they happen all the time simply based on an oversight in the game's priority system.) The movement penalty comes into play more often than you may think. Jobs at lumber mills and like buildings where the workers is primarily stationary (as long as there are haulers) are not effected as much, but what about foresters, lumberjacks, gatherers, farmers? And above all those, builders and haulers get hit the worst by this. I will also point out how it does not meet the standard of quality and polish for a game this far in development and early access. It certainly wouldn't slide in a full release, but I'd argue that at this point, it's not acceptable given the current state of development either. This should have been ironed out some time ago. It is detrimental to the game's presentation to long-term fans and especially newer players, who may feel the game is punishing them for no reason.
It would simply be wise to not risk this issue causing further problems. It would be wise to address the issue, even with a temporary fix (if they plan on revamping or changing how the needs work in the future,) it is still smart to tackle some of the more blatant and apparent issues to foster goodwill from the players.
The adult beavers do not go to work and stuck in the HQ. The young beavers dy instandly if they get adult.
My town is huge... but i had a bigger town and no problems. But housing, HQ, food and water is close by. And the young beavers are not moving so far away and are not effected by workingtime. So why are they dying?
I think maybe something is buggy, because also i have less kids depending on the free beds. The beds seem blocked.. 1/10th of them.
I have yet to experience that particular bug.
I did however, experience my first back-to-back double badtide on Hard difficulty (happening after the very first bad-tide.) I find Hard difficulty challenging but do-able. But that unfortunate RNG seems like an oversight, given the massive spike in difficulty it was. Especially compared to other hard colonies I have played where you can breeze through if you get a drought instead of a second bad-tide in a row.
But back to your problem, maybe you are missing a single path tile? But the game would tell you if a building was unconnected. Maybe something in the design of your infrastructure just overloaded their AI decision-making system and they might be stuck in a loop deciding loop or unable to choose a task because maybe two separate tasks are being triggered at the exact same time, which may cancel each other out? Seems curious. Again, pure speculation.