Multiplayer when?

[Jakkauli]

Since the Switch version will have multiplayer, will this be updated to the PC version aswell?

[Mr. Holy Wow]

Local Multiplayer could technically come to PC ... what makes it so much harder, of course, is that controllers are a complete unknown on PC. A Switch comes with two gyro-enabled controllers out of the box. Also, the game is basically only playable with controllers have have a gyroscope, which a lot of controllers don't...

Regardless, we will probably port over the functionality eventually. It might just take a while to iron out the kinks!

[Creeper of Doom]

There is always Steam’s Dualsense Functionality or Joy Con Support so maybe it could be a possibility if the game is able to detect them if the time and effort is put in, both of those Controllers have Gyroscopes.

[MHerZ]

The PS4/5 controller has gyro and is possible to play with it by changing mouse to gyro, i already tried this early and is another experience

[Jakkauli]

Does it need gyro really? What about just moving the joystick up and down, wouldn't that work? Maybe make the "cursor" go faster while holding down L1/R1, or something.

Or instead of moving the joystick up and down, rotate the joystick clockwise to go down, counter-clockwise to go up. (or offer this as an alternative control mode, kinda like there already is a similar setting for mouse)

Idk, I'm just throwing out ideas. Sure it wouldn't be as accurate as a mouse, but I can't imagine it being that bad. In a multiplayer setting, ♥♥♥♥♥♥ joystick controls might kinda add to the fun, haha.

Anyway, I'm not here to demand new features and I'm sure they aren't that easily implemented. Keep up the good work :)

[StaticR]

I'm pretty sure multiple mice would work in theory but it'd probably have to bypass the windows (or other OS') cursor entirely and instead read the raw input data directly. So basically it'd require making a custom mouse driver.

And then you'd need to write a completely new cursor function from the ground up to work with that.

[ggtyler]

Originally posted by StaticR:

I'm pretty sure multiple mice would work in theory but it'd probably have to bypass the windows (or other OS') cursor entirely and instead read the raw input data directly. So basically it'd require making a custom mouse driver.

And then you'd need to write a completely new cursor function from the ground up to work with that.

You could also use drawing tablets. Use the drivers from something like OpenTabletDriver[github.com], edit them to not directly manipulate the OS cursor, and you could potentially use tablets as another control method. Only downside (besides the question of if it's possible at all) is that you're moving a pen instead of a mouse or controller, which might a be a bit more clunky.

[StaticR]

Originally posted by ggtyler:

Originally posted by StaticR:

I'm pretty sure multiple mice would work in theory but it'd probably have to bypass the windows (or other OS') cursor entirely and instead read the raw input data directly. So basically it'd require making a custom mouse driver.

And then you'd need to write a completely new cursor function from the ground up to work with that.

You could also use drawing tablets. Use the drivers from something like OpenTabletDriver[github.com], edit them to not directly manipulate the OS cursor, and you could potentially use tablets as another control method. Only downside (besides the question of if it's possible at all) is that you're moving a pen instead of a mouse or controller, which might a be a bit more clunky.

Tablet actually works extremely well, but the issue is that very few have one. They aren't as readily available as regular mice are so they have the same availability issue as gyro controls.
Local multiplayer on PC isn't really an issue of implementation, it's that very few have access to the additional hardware required to use it.
Even if it's just extra mice most people only have one because no one really needs more than one mouse usually.

[Arcanacra]

Switch trombonist here. The game is pretty fun on console but gyro is a must. Stick controls ain't fun at all, even messing around is a chore.

Originally posted by Jakkauli:

Or instead of moving the joystick up and down, rotate the joystick clockwise to go down, counter-clockwise to go up. (or offer this as an alternative control mode, kinda like there already is a similar setting for mouse)

Idk, I'm just throwing out ideas. Sure it wouldn't be as accurate as a mouse, but I can't imagine it being that bad. In a multiplayer setting, ♥♥♥♥♥♥ joystick controls might kinda add to the fun, haha.

That rotating scheme (kinda like crank) is what I thought of when I tried using the stick ingame. It has a fair chance of being much better than standard stick controls, and I'd dare say it could be on par with motion, if not better, as joycon gyros often tend to decalibrate, and sometimes you need to readjust the cursor mid song.

There is a couple of older Steam games that support multimouse - like Ragdoll Kung Fu or Hammerfight (had 3 mice laying around, checked both, still work with a bit of tinkering), but theyre old and made in custom engines, plus local play sessions like these are kinda extinct nowadays. Trombone Champ is made in Unity, and apparently making multimouse there is not that easy - tho I only glanced through google, searching for more info on that.

[ggtyler]

Originally posted by Jakkauli:

...Trombone Champ is made in Unity...

uh oh

Originally posted by StaticR:

Tablet actually works extremely well, but the issue is that very few have one. They aren't as readily available as regular mice are so they have the same availability issue as gyro controls.

IMO tablets are more easily available since you don't have to research which controller has a gyroscope, and they can even be cheaper (mine is like $20 and works fine.) That being said, I do agree with you on that.

[The Team Fortress 64]

The very first third-party game that came to Steam, Rag Doll Kung Fu, supports one mouse per player. So do some other games like the Trine series.

I'm no developer but I'm pretty sure you have to use your own mouse input code rather than the single mouse output from the OS, and then target each connected mouse (or controller with gyro, like the Dualsense, Dualshock, Joy-Cons...) as its own device that each player can select



Another thing I'd like to add is that you could technically already get multiplayer on PC... by emulating the Switch version and then mapping the gyro inside the emulator to each gamepad

Always so strange how native support can so often lag behind emulated support

[ggtyler]

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

Always so strange how native support can so often lag behind emulated support

Bit of a misleading statement. This game was made on Unity, which has gyroscope support for joycons (at least on switch builds.) This is an obvious thing to support on an engine, since without it, you're missing a pretty big feature of the console's controllers. (Same goes for emulation.)

Multi-mice, on the other hand, is a very uncommon feature, and thus, you'd have to make it work yourself or use a third party library.[github.com] (note how that repo is in an early state.) As for gyroscope support, I'd imagine the main problem being Unity <-> Steam and a big list of controllers to support (two issues simply nonexistent in consoles.)

[The Team Fortress 64]

Originally posted by ggtyler:

Originally posted by Seal of Approval:

Always so strange how native support can so often lag behind emulated support

Bit of a misleading statement.

It's literally the case right now. Not a misleading statement at all.
I just think it's funny you can already have the support by emulating the game

Originally posted by ggtyler:

As for gyroscope support, I'd imagine the main problem being Unity <-> Steam

What

Originally posted by ggtyler:

Multi-mice, on the other hand, is a very uncommon feature, and thus, you'd have to make it work yourself

Yup. Developing a game, programming something, almost sounds like a job for game developers, which I assume these guys are :D Like I said, the very first third-party game ever on Steam had multi-mice support for multiplayer, I'm sure they can figure it out

[holywowstudios]

To follow up on this:

- We actually have a bunch of experience with a "multi-input" package for Unity that allows for multiple mice. We picked it up in order to experiment with an improved version of our multiplayer typing game. Multi-mice is definitely an option! We prefer this over a "only certain types of controllers are supported" option...

- Part of the difficulty is that getting multiplayer to work requires a significantly-rearchitected gameplay scene that would certainly break almost all mods and custom content, so we'd need to roll this out carefully.

[The Team Fortress 64]

Originally posted by holywowstudios:

- Part of the difficulty is that getting multiplayer to work requires a significantly-rearchitected gameplay scene that would certainly break almost all mods and custom content, so we'd need to roll this out carefully.

It's possible to download older versions of games on Steam, you could also add a legacy version to the beta tabs... But I understand, generally speaking breaking mods wouldn't make people happy

[adolson]

Originally posted by MHerZ:

The PS4/5 controller has gyro and is possible to play with it by changing mouse to gyro, i already tried this early and is another experience

The only thing stopping me from buying this is lack of gamepad support. I use DualShock 4s primarily. How well does it work?