Regarding "Skip Gameplay feature for purchase by AC"

[PrawiSucia]

source: https://pso2.com/players/news/i_20230508_1/

This is hard P2W. I remember Tera did the same thing just before shut down.
I don't like this. I might stop playing and uninstall the game.

What do you guys think?

[PrawiSucia]

Originally posted by Harmless Kitty:

While I don't like the concept of progression skipping, it has already became a common practice among MMO and for me it is nothing to quit or even rage over.

And you know... you can just buy SG with AC.

I came across a game with this practice before and I stopped playing it right away. That's how much I don't like this kind of practice. NGS could be better than that.

[Deadoon]

Max level in this is not much of an achievement at all. Heck yellow trigger spamming is a very viable method. And yellow triggers are so plentiful they are flooded on the player shops.

I got slayer up in only a couple days, and still have the resources to max out 2 more classes without purchasing triggers, if I needed to purchase triggers, I could farm the meseta needed to run 23 15 triggers in one day from just dailies and basic collectibles.

Depending on the gear given, it could be either p2w or mediocre gear. Giving them what amounts to the top level event shop gear as a starting point seems pretty reasonable. It works, but not exactly well.

Edit: yellow triggers are breaking through the 2k mark of price finally, now have a massive wall at 3k.

[Rabbit]

Is anyone realy suprised about that? After all it's still a F2P game.

[Aurelia]

A new player can level a main class (provided they don't keep switching around) from level 1 to 70 in a week at a very casual pace if they follow the story with the new exp adjustments in the mainline along with the equipment that's handed to you for tasks. (time for learning, reading, exploring etc).

When creating a new character, that character is given the option to skip previously completed story progress, immediately bumping that character up to a pre-determined level relavent to that progress (Kvaris was level 55 when I did it, and that character landed level 70 in a day's time from the mainquests.)

It's been pretty clear with each new region that they just want people to be endgame, and they've made that pretty easy already as it is.


Ultimately this looks like it's good for one of two things: 1, raising a subclass, since that's the only leveling grind. or 2, quick recycling of new buyers, since actual new players coming into the game buying themselves to maximum level will surely make them bored after a day of playing when they find out that their option is 1 UQ, or square dancing in central city. (more of a possible consequence than actual intent).

PSO2NG would need more post "skip" content to make any real use of something like this. Beyond that, I don't really care. It's absolutely p2w, but if someone wants to waste money to skip over a couple of days of gameplay into a brick wall, that's up to them and doesn't really impact me one way or the other.

[MekoNeet]

Originally posted by Rabbit:

Is anyone realy suprised about that? After all it's still a F2P game. :lunar2020thinkingtiger:

Guys it is a free game stop whining don't you like garbage?
I got a bit carried away...

[Cute Anime Fencer]

"Now you can skip to the endgame where there's nothing to do!"

Brilliant.

... Though I agree with Lapinoire about the excitement of skipping the awful story in this game, and having to do it multiple times for each characters. I don't want to be introduced to new enemies and bosses through a story I have no investment in; I'd rather stumble onto a big scary new boss with my friends as we panic trying to figure out what it is and how to fight it. You know, organic exploration. The thing you do in open world games. ... It's just ridiculous to pay for it...

[Luxaeterna]

Originally posted by PrawiSucia:

Originally posted by Luxaeterna:

Are you perhaps upset that we arent alarmed with the doom post?

But most of the community are already discussing the negative aspects of the pay2skip, unrelated to the game closing.

Sega already showed a business report last month that NGS is the 2nd top earner among Sega free2play games. So that makes NGS development in the 'safe' for at least 2 years.

Oooh.. i see.. You think that I expect NGS to shut down because I said something about Tera.
Is that right?
If yes, you got it wrong, or maybe my sentence is confusing, my bad.... I mentioned Tera because I played Tera just before the game shut down and they suddenly sell level and equipment. Probably as desperate measure. So I stopped playing because of that. And the game shut down a few months later after I stopped playing.

FYI, I don't want NGS to shut down because I enjoy it.

Tera wasnt the 1st to implement pay2skip system as you have learned here.

The health of the game comes down on how much players are still willing to pay server rent when the game no longer updates. And NGS so far has been constantly on update, but not on the combat side, to the dismay of many users here many recent QoL updates are for getting better screenshots and videos.

Claims of pay2win has become diluted because everyone can claim that everything you can pay is pay2win, even colors affect the psychological and visual capability to perform of a player.

I myself claim that PSO2 is pay2win because it makes free2play players very jealous about expensive cosmetics = losing.

[Prokaizer]

Originally posted by Deadoon:

Max level in this is not much of an achievement at all. Heck yellow trigger spamming is a very viable method. And yellow triggers are so plentiful they are flooded on the player shops.

I got slayer up in only a couple days, and still have the resources to max out 2 more classes without purchasing triggers, if I needed to purchase triggers, I could farm the meseta needed to run 23 15 triggers in one day from just dailies and basic collectibles.

Depending on the gear given, it could be either p2w or mediocre gear. Giving them what amounts to the top level event shop gear as a starting point seems pretty reasonable. It works, but not exactly well.

Edit: yellow triggers are breaking through the 2k mark of price finally, now have a massive wall at 3k.

So you admit that you've spent a couple of days.

A guy who throw $ bypass these days.

There are 7 classes in the game?
You can level them up without killing a single mob or running a single yellow trigger.
So you save days of spamming the same yellow trigger just by paying real $.

Every clown saying it's not pay to win, they don't value their time at all.

Pay to win end of story.

[Luxaeterna]

The point is every micro transaction in MMO are pay2win at varying levels from colors, to exp boost, to lvl boost, to equipment, to stat boost, and in games like EvE and Albion also affect ingame politics on how rich the player is IRL.

[Deadoon]

Originally posted by Prokaizer:

So you admit that you've spent a couple of days.

A guy who throw $ bypass these days.

There are 7 classes in the game?
You can level them up without killing a single mob or running a single yellow trigger.
So you save days of spamming the same yellow trigger just by paying real $.

Every clown saying it's not pay to win, they don't value their time at all.

Pay to win end of story.

Couple days in a fairly casual manner. It wasn't like I was no-lifing it.

It also wasn't without purpose either. I got a good feel for the class and it's progression from that, allowing me to jump into the higher level content immediately without being a detriment to those alongside me.

Just pop on some tunes, jump in VC with some friends and just do a few runs. A single run of stia troopers can easily give over a million exp with proper boosts in about 2 minutes; loading, waiting and queuing included. Considering you only need 2m exp for 69-70 that is 4 minutes and a total cost of 30k meseta at 3k/trigger. At a baseline of 234k meseta/day from normal daily quests and the basic collectables from the first 3 areas. And that is the SOLO cost. If you are in a group, you could cut those costs in a quarter by sharing triggers.

I value my time, and if something is still fun, it was time well spent. That is the core purpose of a game after.

[PrawiSucia]

Originally posted by Luxaeterna:

Claims of pay2win has become diluted because everyone can claim that everything you can pay is pay2win, even colors affect the psychological and visual capability to perform of a player.

I myself claim that PSO2 is pay2win because it makes free2play players very jealous about expensive cosmetics = losing.

Originally posted by Luxaeterna:

The point is every micro transaction in MMO are pay2win at varying levels from colors, to exp boost, to lvl boost, to equipment, to stat boost, and in games like EvE and Albion also affect ingame politics on how rich the player is IRL.

then, pay for level, skill points, equipment is high level p2w above other p2w.
Justification...

Originally posted by Shirokami:

Yeah and having better PC hardware is also Pay to Win since you get more fluid, vivid and better quality image.

cope...

[PrawiSucia]

Originally posted by Shirokami:

Cope? Running the game at 4k 144 is p2w against those who can barely running it on 720p!

sure sure if you want to call that p2w.

[Aurelia]

Originally posted by PrawiSucia:

Originally posted by Shirokami:

Yeah and having better PC hardware is also Pay to Win since you get more fluid, vivid and better quality image.

cope...

If one cannot effectively define the parameters of a term of debate, rather than being able to freely slap it on anything subjectively, then it loses it's purpose.

Definitively, the term P2W carries weight as defining a situation where one can pay money to either increase their progression above normal direct means. Whether that's paying real money for boosters, functional items with stats and advantages, or skipping content.

Saying that buying outfits (cosmetics, colors, etc) is p2w, due to it letting you achieve your look faster in the game than those who may have to farm to buy them on the market or through events, is subjectively p2w, but not objectively p2w, and trying to press weight on that subjective side invalidates as a relavently meaningful point in a discussion like this.

Subjectively, spending more money on a better computer will aid a player in progressing through the game smoother than one who has fps and other performance issues.

Objectively, this use of "p2w" is inconsequential as it has nothing to do with influencing the actual data within the game itself via external checkbook rather than gameplay, and is not relavent to the present discussion.

Shirokami was being facetious in order to make a point.

[PrawiSucia]

Originally posted by Aurelia:

Shirokami was being facetious in order to make a point.

yeah a point where p2w is ok in NGS.

[Raevenent]

Reminder that FF14 does this exact thing