Jackie is broken currently

[Scragg]

there is definitely something wrong with jackie right now. she goes around killing literally every player on the map in one or two hits. im thinking something is broken with her damage scaling at that the moment.

[Scragg]

i got fully geared and was level 15 and i still couldnt do anything. i was last surviving besides the jackie, she just killed player after player the entire game. It has happened multiple times.

[Scragg]

i was using shoichi.

[Zarg]

I won a game with Fiora using Spear and pretty sure I beat Jackie during the run (Solo). When I first started, I was using Jackie, though. She is quite OP (I was building full Skill Amplification with her for huge burst damage). But she's still beatable (I didn't win every match lol, but I did win some).

Other than Jackie, characters using Sniper Rifle (the 140+ Attack Damage one) are also totally OP as well. Probably moreso than Jackie lol. But I think they are squishy. I witnessed it in Squads so person on my team was basically 3-shotting everyone.

But still, I think they are all beatable. The game seems heavily based on how quickly you build your items, how high your level is (compared to your opponent) and from there, well, if you have no defense nor extra HP going against full damage builds it can still be rough.

Getting hang of the game is pretty fun, though. So far I am enjoying Flora with the 100 Attack Damage Spear and Atk Spd + Lifesteal build (though it's a challenge building her spear some games, admittedly, lol). Can't wait to try out other OP builds (Zahir has absolutely destroyed me in a couple of matches and usually is very high level very early on and seems to move real fast too lol).

[Scragg]

Originally posted by Dedded:

But you have 3.5hrs...

and two wins.....

[Zarg]

I tested this again since your post and I decided to use Jackie with Axe called Harpe. It's really OP because the axe gives a lot of atk dmg as well as skill amp. Not sure if you ran into Axe Jackie, but I was basically 3-shotting everyone I ran into that game lol.

Edit: Jackie with dual blades Dioscuri is also broken af with just normal attacks...

[我是实习生]

Jackie was a broken champ for me when i play this game first time. Jackie player like to fight in early-mid game. If they chase you , what you can do is keep running until his uitimate is gone then turn to fight with him.

[Zarg]

Originally posted by hyxsquare:

Jackie was a broken champ for me when i play this game first time. Jackie player like to fight in early-mid game. If they chase you , what you can do is keep running until his uitimate is gone then turn to fight with him.

While that is good advice, remember Jackie not only has W (which increases her move speed) but also has E (a Leap ability) which allows her to easily chase people down. It's actually challenging getting away from her.

I think the main issue of brokenness with Jackie is that, a powerhouse Axe build can 3-shot people with her skills (with full build of skill amp and Harpe weapon), while the Dual Swords seems to proc normal attacks 2 times instead of 1 time making her DPS ridiculously high especially at end game. I haven't played her as Dual Swords yet, but most Jackies that kill me in less than 3 seconds are running Dual Swords build with Dioscuri weapon.

Some simple rebalancing could fix her. Dual Swords are probably the main concern, not so much Jackie as a champ, but that's just me guessing. No way to test/compare right now since she's the only one that can equip them.

[Zarg]

https://imgur.com/wkI5hxV

Here's an image to help confirm the OP's claim that Jackie is broken.

Just got beat, 2 of us vs a solo Jackie. All the Jackie had equipped was a Vibroblade and an arm band. We were all full health. Jackie was only 1 level above us (we were level 6, she was level 7). While we didn't have excellent gear, honestly this wasn't fair at all. She beat us and still had more than half her life left after the encounter.

If this keeps up, a lot of people will end up playing Jackie, while a lot of other people will just quit the game because if you don't play Jackie your team won't stand a chance.

That's the issue when you don't balance the characters properly.

As much as I want this game to succeed, this is starting to leave a sour taste in my mouth.

[Enlyne]

Jackie is the weakest character in the early game, just harass her, she's not nearly as broken as Dailin or Chiara in comparison.

[Zarg]

Originally posted by Dedded:

Even I play as a duel sword Jackie died against an Axe Jackie loll.

Haha! That is pretty interesting. I tried Axe Jackie and she is very powerful. Still haven't tried dual swords Jackie, though.

Originally posted by Dedded:

But same thing goes with spear Fioria or Pistol Aya (quick purple weapon early game).

Spear Fiora is pretty awesome. Of course, only after you have purple spear. Before that she's a bit weak. But with the spear, she's really strong. I won a Solo game with her, even against Jackie (of course with full build at end game).

Originally posted by Enlyne:

Jackie is the weakest character in the early game, just harass her, she's not nearly as broken as Dailin or Chiara in comparison.

I actually use Li Dailin a lot. I like her, but I tend to build her tanky/defensive instead of going for offense. Usually use her in Duo or Squad in order to tank enemies while team takes them down, since she has that silence she's great in team comps. But I don't see her burst damage potential being as broken as Jackie's tbh, having tried both characters and even when I go full skill amp Li Dailin. I dunno, maybe I am building her wrong, though.

Can't speak for Chiara, haven't tried her yet. Been working on a counter to Jackie using Hyunwoo with Tonfa. Idea is to return the burst damage to Jackie using the Tonfa quick spin skill. I only pulled it off once, but all it did was...well I dropped Jackie to 20% HP while I was still full, then I got bursted down and died while my defenses (bluff and quick spin) were on cooldown lmao.

[Scragg]

Originally posted by Besthy:

This thread, lmao. People always like to discuss stuff, having 0 experience on subject.

i actually went and played as her for several rounds, i was able to build a purple axe and shoes in about two minutes and then start killing people for the rest of the match. just because i have low hours dont think that means i dont know anything. I have only played about 1000 different video games in my life. (many of which i have over 100 to 10000 hours in)

[Scragg]

Originally posted by Dedded:

Originally posted by Scragg:

i actually went and played as her for several rounds, i was able to build a purple axe and shoes in about two minutes and then start killing people for the rest of the match. just because i have low hours dont think that means i dont know anything. I have only played about 1000 different video games in my life. (many of which i have over 100 to 10000 hours in)

Of course you know everything, you just have to read. But guess what matters?
Also that is one example but can I ask your LP and region? And other games play time are relevant? I spent 10000000 hrs in CSGO mate. I'm much better than you at this game.

I would argue that alpha testing LoL for balancing and bug fixing would probably be relevant, in addition to the multiple other mobas and MMOs I beta/alpha tested. Cool you have a few more hours in a low skill ceiling moba, grats..... have fun being better at a niche game. I'm just trying to help by pointing out something obvious that I spotted.

[Scragg]

Originally posted by Besthy:

Originally posted by Scragg:

i actually went and played as her for several rounds, i was able to build a purple axe and shoes in about two minutes and then start killing people for the rest of the match. just because i have low hours dont think that means i dont know anything. I have only played about 1000 different video games in my life. (many of which i have over 100 to 10000 hours in)

So? You're in a low tier players meta rn. Axe is okay at best, you not gonna outscale someone in late, like you would with dagger(s). It's all about getting kills early, building tank and then suck anyway. It's so funny how people talk about axe amp Jackie, like what would you amp? Q and that's IT? And you guys talking about straight up nerfs, lol.
Like at lvl 4 I'm gonna build my purple spear as Xiukai and beat every single character 1v1, then I'm gonna build the rest and beat every single character 1v1 anyway, at any stage of my build. Unless it's a good Dailin player. That's it.
I'm gonna guess you're playing EU or SA, no way you would win on KR or NA with AXE JACKIE.

playing NA still messing around with builds with the other weapons. though the dual hand swords are pretty nasty so far, axe was meh - but really easy to get the materials for early game.

[Zarg]

I agree with Scragg on this one. I've played more than enough games in my life to be able to identify scaling issues.

Originally posted by Besthy:

That' a perfect example, amp axe Jackie. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sniper Ayaya, completely unplayable in late, meme build. Straight up Adriana tier stuff.

Here's an example to show someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. Disregarding sniper Ayaya and amp axe Jackie without knowing if we're discussing Solo, Duos, or Squad. Obviously these builds work differently depending on the team comp. If you have someone on your team stunning enemies, the burst damage from sniper Ayaya and axe amp Jackie is extremely relevant, much more so than Solo.

I won a match with axe amp Jackie, so saying the build doesn't work late game is absolutely ignorant. I didn't even have to play 5 matches to win with axe amp Jackie. If you know what you're talking about, then you'd know Harpe (an axe weapon FYI) has both extremely high damage and extremely high skill amp, so it's not just skill amp (which is probably why they slightly nerfed the skill amp in a recent patch).

And Q is not the only thing that gets amped. Jackie's E (a Leap skill FYI) also has high damage potential. A quick E>Q combo is 3 skill hits. I said in a prior post I was 3-shotting everyone in the game, regardless of their builds. It was using E>Q. I never even had to pop my ult.

You want to act like you're 'high tier' in a game that doesn't even have a ranked mode, when all you have to do is run and hide until late game to get some points to go up in what you call 'tier', even if you die at the end. Please...That doesn't mean you know the game more than people who've spent thousands of hours in thousands of other games.

Almost every match, you will end up dying to a team that has a Jackie on it, especially in the early-to-mid game (since outrunning her is nearly impossible for many characters that don't even have proper dash abilities or have high CDs). That makes the game NOT FUN for both new and experienced players, regardless of their 'tier'. What that's gonna cause is people leaving the game. So, you'd be 'high tier' in a game that nobody plays in a few months. Talk about counterintuitive. You want to criticize people trying to make the game more approachable to a wider demographic (i.e. people who have spent thousands of hours in Dota2 or League of Legends or Apex Legends or actual successful well-balanced titles). Maybe it'd ruin your 'high tier' if more players get into the game. Or maybe you're only 'high tier' because all you play is Jackie Dioscuri. I couldn't begin to comprehend your reasoning in disagreeing with Scragg.

Anyway, I second Scragg's feedback on this. Jackie's scaling is too broken right now.

[Zarg]

Originally posted by Besthy:

Well, in this situation amp pistol Aya could kill someone just by tapping W.

Yeah, I have seen this, too.

Originally posted by Besthy:

Jackie is boring RMB spam and mediocre character at best, sometimes I play her, just like other characters there is.

At the least, I can agree with you on this one. With dual blades, she's the equivalent of Ranged DPS in LoL (AD Carry). Just right click enemy and they die. If anything, at least she isn't Ranged.


Not to derail the thread I won't go into it all, but I'll just agree to disagree with you on some of the other points. This game IS Early Access and the devs do balancing in the patch updates, so I will keep hopes up that the game is going to improve with time. I actually want the game to do well so I can have something fresh to play in this genre (else I wouldn't waste time giving critiques if I didn't care about the game). Also interested in playing Ranked mode once it's added.